Yeah there is the law and there is reality, mostly made up of relationships. But the rest of your 2nd para is irrelevant, a customer doesn't need to understand or acknowledge anything about how fcked up things are behind the scenes; the shops issues are not their issues. In any case, neither customer or shop should be waiting around for months. But if the customer doesn't demand action, doubt the shop has much incentive to shake things up and take it to the man.
Advice Wanted - New Bike Warranty
- Thread starter gtryder
- Start date
Yes legally you are right the customer has the consumer law to protect them and that states all those things. But the facts of the industry are not irrelevant they are totally relevant because they are killing whats left of the LBS.
The distributors of a lot bike brands in this country don't stand behind their dealers and warranty claims for most dealers is a money losing exercise as they generally don't get reimbursed for the time them spend handling the claim. In a lot of cases they have no choice but to send the product back to manufacturer or supplier. This combined with the cut throat nature of retail (everyone feels they are entitled to a discount) makes it an extremely difficult environment for bike retailers.
Contrary to what a lot of people like to believe there are plenty of shops out there trying their best to provide the best service they can but when they can't fix the issue for you they are reliant on 3rd parties. As far as I know the retailer has no consumer law as such to help them threaten their suppliers with to fix issues quickly so in the same way they probably have to be patient and rely on relationships.
Hows this for an example - I paid full retail for a bike from a large Sydney retailer and within a year the frame developed a fracture. Bike got stripped down, frame sent off and weeks later (about 3) the claim was approved. 1 more week for frame to get delivered and then another couple of days to get it built. So I was without my bike for over a month and then the best part of all of this is that the bike shop charged me labour to re build the bike. When I asked why they confirmed what I already knew, they receive no compensation for the time they spend handling the claim. Legal? maybe not but it wasn't a surprise to me and I wanted my dam bike back so I paid them and went on my way. This shop has helped me out heaps over the years so in my opinion Iv'e got my money back anyway.
Until manufacturers implement nation wide warranty schemes much like car dealerships have and pay dealerships for warranty work none of this will change.
The distributors of a lot bike brands in this country don't stand behind their dealers and warranty claims for most dealers is a money losing exercise as they generally don't get reimbursed for the time them spend handling the claim. In a lot of cases they have no choice but to send the product back to manufacturer or supplier. This combined with the cut throat nature of retail (everyone feels they are entitled to a discount) makes it an extremely difficult environment for bike retailers.
Contrary to what a lot of people like to believe there are plenty of shops out there trying their best to provide the best service they can but when they can't fix the issue for you they are reliant on 3rd parties. As far as I know the retailer has no consumer law as such to help them threaten their suppliers with to fix issues quickly so in the same way they probably have to be patient and rely on relationships.
Hows this for an example - I paid full retail for a bike from a large Sydney retailer and within a year the frame developed a fracture. Bike got stripped down, frame sent off and weeks later (about 3) the claim was approved. 1 more week for frame to get delivered and then another couple of days to get it built. So I was without my bike for over a month and then the best part of all of this is that the bike shop charged me labour to re build the bike. When I asked why they confirmed what I already knew, they receive no compensation for the time they spend handling the claim. Legal? maybe not but it wasn't a surprise to me and I wanted my dam bike back so I paid them and went on my way. This shop has helped me out heaps over the years so in my opinion Iv'e got my money back anyway.
Until manufacturers implement nation wide warranty schemes much like car dealerships have and pay dealerships for warranty work none of this will change.
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Knuckles
Lives under a bridge
Flow-Rider
Burner
Just a serial pest that Moorey really likes but don't worry he's long gone now.No idea what you are on about
stinky1138
Likes Dirt
Well that sounds like a rather bs ultimatum...stand there and get fucked over by lbs or run the risk they'll intentionally fuck you over again in the future.....over something they are possibly responsible for in the first place.....hmmmm. And the lbs wonders why people don't use them anymore. :violin:
No one said anything about allowing them to screw you around for months if they do then yeah chuck a spaz and exercise your consumer rights. All I was trying to say is that using that position as a starting point (as some have suggest) won't really get you anywhere. I've been in the MTB scene for the past 10 years and I have never really had that many issues with warranty and service at various shops, sure there have been issues but in a lot of cases it's not been the fault of the local shop. In my humble opinion it's all about how you approach it, if you treat the staff at the local shop that earn $20 per hour like shit then yeah your gonna get screwed around! As if they want to put up with your whining for that amount of money. Then Im sure your response to that would be if they dont like it they should quit, well no because the fact of the matter is that most customers are reasonable people and they probably enjoy working in the industry.
Some people rely on local shops and I am one of them, sure I could spend hours trying to figure out how to save $50 but Id rather spend my time doing something else like maybe riding my bike or drinking nice beer. If they all get sent out of business then it's gonna suck. Why people begrudge a local shop for doing what's right for them to stay in business is beyond me, sure there has to be a balance between making money and looking after the customer but at the end of the day there are customers that can never be pleased.
Anyhow don't wanna sound like I am preaching I just get a little frustrated with the attitude sometimes. Oh yeah never worked in a bike shop btw just met lots of people in the industry along the way.
Worked in one, nearly bought one, been around bikes for a while. There is not justification for defending a business that can't ensure consumers get what they paid for. I don't want to hear the excuses, cos that's all they are. If you continue with that approach people will eventually vote with their feet. Currently the value add/service is the only thing separating bricks and mortar vs online stores. It's in their interests to sort this out, and stop taking it out of consumers pockets.
redbruce
Eats Squid
+1...
+1...
Rider_of_Bikes
Likes Dirt
I do work in one and here is our latest warranty horror story.
A brand new fork off a band new bike had a mid stroke clunk. (very subtle). We contacted the distro and they said to set it up normally and have the customer ride it for a bit and see if it disappears. The customer does as instructed and brings the bike back for a first service, the clunk remains. We call the distro again and book it in for a warranty. Package up the fork, express post with insurance. 3 days pass (travel time) we call and the fork has not turned up yet. 2 more days, nothing. I get the post office to track it it was signed for on the second day... I call again and am told they are under the pump it will go out tomorrow or at worst the next day (friday). Monday rolls around, no fork. Tuesday morning i call again, nothing has been done yet, tomorrow. Call again tomorrow and it is now awaiting parts that are due next week. Mid next week hits, call again... Not done yet. Tomorrow. Tomorrow comes and it is done and will be sent straight away. 2 days pass, no fork. Call again. IT HASNT EVEN BEEN SERVICED!! At this point I tear the poor persons head off on the othwr end. He doesn't want to hear it so he tells me to email his boss. I do and the next day i get a call. The fork has been laying around. No one has touched it as the work order was lost as the person who booked it in quit. They will get it done today! Hooray!
They call back, and send a video. There is nothing wrong with the fork. They will repackage it and post it back (at our expense of course) They do, but they post it to the wrong shop. (We have three) We forward post it (more cost). The fork finally arrives! We go to put it back in the bike and low and behold... They didnt send the axle...
Another phone call. Stern words. And a stolen axle out of a staffs bike we can finally give the customer his bike back.
He waited over a month. Although he was very patient and understanding he was pissed in the end. As a token of thanks for his troubles I ordered him an Intense tee (he rides an intense).
This is what your lbs can be up against. With no other supplier to call or complain to. Our hands can be tied...
End diatribe.
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A brand new fork off a band new bike had a mid stroke clunk. (very subtle). We contacted the distro and they said to set it up normally and have the customer ride it for a bit and see if it disappears. The customer does as instructed and brings the bike back for a first service, the clunk remains. We call the distro again and book it in for a warranty. Package up the fork, express post with insurance. 3 days pass (travel time) we call and the fork has not turned up yet. 2 more days, nothing. I get the post office to track it it was signed for on the second day... I call again and am told they are under the pump it will go out tomorrow or at worst the next day (friday). Monday rolls around, no fork. Tuesday morning i call again, nothing has been done yet, tomorrow. Call again tomorrow and it is now awaiting parts that are due next week. Mid next week hits, call again... Not done yet. Tomorrow. Tomorrow comes and it is done and will be sent straight away. 2 days pass, no fork. Call again. IT HASNT EVEN BEEN SERVICED!! At this point I tear the poor persons head off on the othwr end. He doesn't want to hear it so he tells me to email his boss. I do and the next day i get a call. The fork has been laying around. No one has touched it as the work order was lost as the person who booked it in quit. They will get it done today! Hooray!
They call back, and send a video. There is nothing wrong with the fork. They will repackage it and post it back (at our expense of course) They do, but they post it to the wrong shop. (We have three) We forward post it (more cost). The fork finally arrives! We go to put it back in the bike and low and behold... They didnt send the axle...
Another phone call. Stern words. And a stolen axle out of a staffs bike we can finally give the customer his bike back.
He waited over a month. Although he was very patient and understanding he was pissed in the end. As a token of thanks for his troubles I ordered him an Intense tee (he rides an intense).
This is what your lbs can be up against. With no other supplier to call or complain to. Our hands can be tied...
End diatribe.
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hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
Yes, but is it still clunky?
Rider_of_Bikes
Likes Dirt
redbruce
Eats Squid
While I feel your pain. You're forgetting the client, the whole driver for business.
That was Shreds point.
Business model then has obvious and fatal flaws. Great some have a go, but in the end the whole supply chain needs to to get it (also Shreds point).
Suspect Chocko view is an (the) issue and simply continues to encourage wrong behaviour.
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Rider_of_Bikes
Likes Dirt
Wait? How did i forget the client?? I believe the distro forgot the client- both of them really... Us, their client and then our client. The client is of upmost importance no doubt. But we the retail vendor are bound by what we have access to and our distros warranty service.
If we had to buy a set of brakes or refund a bike for every Guide Lever that has failed in the last 2 months we would have had to close the shop. Thankfully most customers understand things happen.
Now.. Did this poor fellow get his shock sorted???
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Sorry but how the fuck has he forgotten the customer?? Did read that post? This is exactly what I've been talking about. He has followed up countless times the shop has paid for postage not to mention the time wasted following this shit up. Then they have had to deal with another fuck up again at their cost and at the end of it it all they salvage an axle to get the customer back on the trails. Yeah fucking horrible customer service there, he really didn't give a shit about the customer.
And now I'm encouraging wrong behaviour? That's pretty hilarious I'm seriously chuckling my ass off so hard I almost spilt my beer. Being a reasonable human being is wrong behaviour. That's cool I'll go with what has worked for me and you go with the high stress approach and fuck over every bike shop you can at every opportunity you get.
Oh and bike shop owners it's time to close your doors until you can control the whole supply chain and guarantee that you can pull forks, shocks, frames, shifters all of it! out of your ass on demand. This is the only way that you can survive.
Meanwhile fuckwits keep buying online and when your shit breaks enjoy the awesome reality of packaging shit up, paying for postage and then waiting for a dumb ass reply assuming you get one. Hmmm that last paragraph sounds familiar.......
Rider_of_Bikes
Likes Dirt
Hey Chocko
I just went back and re-read your previous post. Your approach is the right one in my opinion. It is the same approach everyone should use in a problem situation. Start polite, patient and courteous- get strong if needed.
Things happen sometimes. Sometimes they suck. But courtesy should always come first.
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redbruce
Eats Squid
What to say. I re read the thread and I have maligned you and Rider_of_bikes.
My apologies.
Rider_of_Bikes
Likes Dirt
Its really interesting to hear from someone in the industry.
I do have one question about this situation, did you keep the customer informed as it went along ?
My biggest issue at the moment is the shop makes no effort to keep me in the loop / seems like they couldnt care less, and to be frank i expect better service.
I'm not blaming them for the delays as I know its out of their control but after more than 2 weeks the only communication I've had was from me calling them !
Rider_of_Bikes
Likes Dirt
Our primary concern at the shop is keeping the customer in the loops. Regardless if it is warranty, service, after sales follow up. It is a big part of our business plan. I am well aware of internet pricing and rarely can we win. So we will win elsewhere- with service.
In this case yes he was. Even though i think he may have a complex now thinking everytime i calk him something is wrong.
I will add... We are human and make mistakes. We do our best to own those mistakes and rectify them asap.
If the communication from the shop your dealing with is poor on the customer front it is probably poor within the business as well.
I would ask for the appropriate person to speak with and only talk to them about the issue. Dont be afraid to ask for updates every few days even if nothing has changed. Comms is key.
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