Aero Tucks

MTB Pilot

Likes Dirt
I'm new to mountain bike racing. Only done one race so far. I've seen only mention of aero tucking during a race in things I've read so far. I saw a mention of it on a triathlon doco, and it covered the importance of it during a long race and how much speed can be gained (and lost) and energy that can be saved.

My question is to you guys, what can you share with a newbie racer about when, where, how etc?

I'd really appreciate any advice as always when I ask a question on here.

Thanks guys
 

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
What race did you do?
Most races will not benefit from any kind of aero improvements. For xc races forget about aero tucks. Drafting can be helpful on road sections of marathon races but most xc races are too slow and too technical for worrying about aero.
 

Ozkaban

Likes Dirt
My understanding of aero positioning (from road riding) was that it was only really useful above about 30 kmh. Happy to be proven wrong in mtb though as the normal riding position is a lot less aero than on the road.
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
Really only mildly useful on long firetrail sections, particularly downhill. If you've been tailing someone for a bit, getting aero when the trail opens can give you that boost you need to get past before dropping back into the singletrack.

But, don't be a knob & fly past if you can't make it stick and are likely to get caught again in the singletrack, that's just not playing fair.
 

silentbutdeadly

has some good things to say
Aero tucking during a race will only get you so far. In my experience, that distance has usually been short and not in the direction intended due to striking some trailside object.

Basically if you tuck in behind someone then you compromise your ability to actually see the trail coming which WILL (inevitably) slow you down.

On the other hand, if you try and get all aero in your body position (ala TT) then you seriously reduce your handling capacity - try riding with your hands tucked in beside the stem or with your forearms across your levers for example.

The only reason to tuck close behind another racer is to try and put that racer under pressure which will either force a mistake (which will take them offline) or compel them to move over....
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
think it's useful in say a 100k event where energy conservation is important, on the flat if I put my elbows where the grips are ... so a low position I can pick up 1kph. on long fire trails it's a nice way to change position and knock over the ks. the advantage is from 25kph up. on descents again on fire roads that are predictable the difference is obvious. another method I've seen riders use is to put their hands close to the stem on the bars, decreasing frontal area.
 

quiggs

Likes Dirt
I was in the aero position a few times over last weekends race. Only because my hands were absolutely trashed from the 7 minutes down skyline, luge and downhill tracks that my hands needed a rest! Definitely not for an aero advantage

Quiggs
 

chrisp2087

Likes Dirt
I use a position that I guess is aero, I'm not much of a racer, more a conserver of energy during 100k races and the changed position helps, I put my chest on the stem (almost) and hold onto the top of the forks on some flat fireroad sections........I find it comfortable and it probably "feels" faster...........I'd say I look like an idiot but I don't care, it's comfy.
 

Slowman

Likes Dirt
I'm new to mountain bike racing. Only done one race so far. I've seen only mention of aero tucking during a race in things I've read so far. I saw a mention of it on a triathlon doco, and it covered the importance of it during a long race and how much speed can be gained (and lost) and energy that can be saved.

My question is to you guys, what can you share with a newbie racer about when, where, how etc?

I'd really appreciate any advice as always when I ask a question on here.

Thanks guys
Seriously? I suggest you wear your TT helmet, skin suit, shoes covers and get some of that free speed! I have always wanted to put some tri bars on my MTB and go full aero kit - just for a laugh.

I can't recall who it was now but some guy was using slam aero bars on his MTB in 50km and 100km races and won a couple but I think it was more for a different position than getting aero. For all the reasons already given they probably aren't all that practical but I'll add some more
1. safety (eg. being in TT/tri bars and hitting a water bar at speed!), safety is paramount
2. limited opportunity for real benefits - a smooth riding style will see you faster by losing less momentum as you go over obstacles and bumps
2.A. as mentioned you need some higher speeds before the drag becomes a factor, at low speeds airflow will be laminar and not turbulent
2.B. wind tends not to be an issue on trails as the bush will stop the wind, unless you're doing the croc trophy you don't tend to be out in open spaces that much
3. better returns for your money to be had improving other areas that will lead to faster times (eg. efficient suspension, supple tyres, tubeless, riding technique and so on)

Impossible to say there is no advantage, but it would be the last place to start looking for speed gains.
 

Propagate

Likes Dirt
I use a position that I guess is aero, I'm not much of a racer, more a conserver of energy during 100k races and the changed position helps, I put my chest on the stem (almost) and hold onto the top of the forks on some flat fireroad sections........I find it comfortable and it probably "feels" faster...........I'd say I look like an idiot but I don't care, it's comfy.
You're not British are you? Did you do the 2011 Cape to Cape? I saw a guy riding road sections, downhill, FAST just as you describe - holding onto the forks. It looked seriously frightening.
 

Big JD

Wheel size expert
aero-ing is the new wheelsize

i aero all the time

especially when i am strava-ing

i aero on my way to work - just to give the cars behind a really good look at my ar*e.

i aero my mates on casual rides because every ride is serious

why

because i am really big and wide and the wind slows me down so i get down low and go go go
 

wilddemon

Likes Dirt
According to the Velominati a tuck is permissible once you have run out of gears. On mtb this is downhill on firetrail.

Everyone aeros, just not everyone admits to it. It's perfectly natural, and will not cause blindness.
 

Big JD

Wheel size expert
there is no truth in any thing Ive posted

If you feel the need to aero for comfort - go for it. If you are aeroing for performance purposes off road - ya dreaming
 

MTB Pilot

Likes Dirt
Seriously? I suggest you wear your TT helmet, skin suit, shoes covers and get some of that free speed! I have always wanted to put some tri bars on my MTB and go full aero kit - just for a laugh.

I can't recall who it was now but some guy was using slam aero bars on his MTB in 50km and 100km races and won a couple but I think it was more for a different position than getting aero. For all the reasons already given they probably aren't all that practical but I'll add some more
1. safety (eg. being in TT/tri bars and hitting a water bar at speed!), safety is paramount
2. limited opportunity for real benefits - a smooth riding style will see you faster by losing less momentum as you go over obstacles and bumps
2.A. as mentioned you need some higher speeds before the drag becomes a factor, at low speeds airflow will be laminar and not turbulent
2.B. wind tends not to be an issue on trails as the bush will stop the wind, unless you're doing the croc trophy you don't tend to be out in open spaces that much
3. better returns for your money to be had improving other areas that will lead to faster times (eg. efficient suspension, supple tyres, tubeless, riding technique and so on)

Impossible to say there is no advantage, but it would be the last place to start looking for speed gains.
Thanks for your humour Slowman. I was actually asking a serious question! As I said from the start, I'm new to mountain bike racing and have only done one race so far. Up until then, I've just been a MTB rider and ridden like most of those who don't race I guess. I've read lots of stuff on racing to date, but only seen one mention of aero tucking in all the things I've read. What really got me thinking about it (as a newbie to mountain bike racing Slowman), was the doco I saw on triathlon which mentioned it. It mentioned the importance of it during a long race and how much speed can be gained and lost and the energy that can be saved. I've seen a few pics (yes I still learn some things from looking at pictures Slowman, 'cause you don't just learn by reading) of mountain bike racers with hands close to the stems of their bikes as well, so I started thinking about the benefits or otherwise of aero tucking in mountain bike races. As a newbie to racing, it appeared that there were some racers who believed in the benefits some degree of aero tucking. There may of course have been other reasons for it.

My question to viewers, was "what can you share with a newbie racer about when, where, how etc?" That obviously allowed for comments about whether it was in fact useful in mountain bike racing, which some respondents, including yourself, have suggested it's probably not worth worrying about. I had my doubts to be honest, because there's too many variables in mountain bike racing, but wanted to hear others thoughts on it.

Thanks for your positive suggestions though Slowman. I understand all the other applications you've mentioned. I'm not sure about your comment, "wind tends not to be an issue on trails as the bush will stop the wind" though. In the Blue Mountains, we have to put up with a lot of wind at times, and there's plenty of bush up here. I think you mean about tracks where the bush is dense around it, and not on tracks up here where you're often on a ridge that's very exposed. If you ever get to ride Narrow Neck at Katoomba you might be in for a big surprise with the wind. At least with your comment about the Croc Trophy and wind, I can be confident I can stay relatively upright if I ever decide to do the Croc.

I appreciate your positive advice Slowman, but I'm not sure that with such knowledge, the name Slowman would still be appropriate. :lol:

Now I think I better go and get a TT helmet, skin suit, shoes covers, put some tri bars and a full aero kit on my bike and start doing some wind tunnel testing. I need to work out how to gain all that extra speed. :wave: :laugh: :roll:
 

chrisp2087

Likes Dirt
You're not British are you? Did you do the 2011 Cape to Cape? I saw a guy riding road sections, downhill, FAST just as you describe - holding onto the forks. It looked seriously frightening.
wow I've never seen anyone else doing it, but nope not British & not doing the cape 2 cape........and now feeling slightly less insane, downhill fast would just be scary, flat fire road is fine!
 

thecat

NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
Thanks for your humour Slowman. I was actually asking a serious question! As I said from the start, I'm new to mountain bike racing and have only done one race so far. Up until then, I've just been a MTB rider and ridden like most of those who don't race I guess. I've read lots of stuff on racing to date, but only seen one mention of aero tucking in all the things I've read. What really got me thinking about it (as a newbie to mountain bike racing Slowman), was the doco I saw on triathlon which mentioned it.
For tri and road it makes a big difference as you are out in the wind and you don't really need to think about body position for techi descents and corners.

For XC, as most have said, you'll get a bit of reward on fire trail sections or straightish, open, easy single trail but for most occasions body position for better bike handling will be more important than body position for aerodynamics.

Likewise drafting a rider in front means big energy saving on road but in single trail there's a bit of mental assistance of having the carrot to chase and follow their lines but no real energy saving in trying to draft on a single trail.
 
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