All Mountain Tracks - What Do You See

[cokeonspecialtwodollars]

What do you like to see in an All Mountain Track? Be specific if possible list your top three favourite tracks and the sections that make them your favourite.

As you may have heard a new AM track is going to built at Glenworth Valley soon and I am keen to know what you would like to see especially for those of you that can't make the build days, hopefully this thread can also be used as a source of inspiration for trail builders around the country.

Do you enjoy lots of sweeping berms aka the Luge at Stromlo, big rock features like the top half of Ourimbah and Awaba, how about man made stuff like the see-saw at Taree or wall rides and "North Shore-esq" drops or do you prefer natural off camber corners like Paterson, maybe you salivate for tight technical pinch climbs or fast open fire roads. (Sorry that my examples are NSW bias, I don't get out much. Feel free to throw up some examples of DH, XC or AM tracks from around the country that you want to see incorporated into AM trails)

I don't want to hear anything about racing formats and the like or shuttle vs pedal up just plain and simple what elements make up the tracks that you want to ride.

 

[my02]

The new section on the Ourimbah DH track is great AM fun IMO. You can carry speed, there is a requirement to choose your line to really get the best out of that section and the features provide options.

Itchy & Scratchy at Red Hill is getting close to a great track. Despite its brevity it's got some great features in it but doesn't feel too man made.

Pork Barrel is a great off the brakes track with a good mixture of features (drops, gaps, berms, roughness) without feeling overly man made. After a perfect run down there at top speed you know about it (well that's also my lack of fitness).

My preference for AM is also something that carries good elements of flow. Am thinking b rude not 2 at Rotorua for those who know it. But perhaps with a little more ruggedness. Unfortunately I don't think there's too much of that around Sydney.

I also like natural technical features on both the ups and downs. I'd like to see features that I would want to stop and inspect on my first run down rather than something smooth and manicured . In other words something that will test my skills and justify the need for my 6" bike.

You could just about pick any of the EWS tracks and come pretty close to the sort of tracks I would like to ride.

 

[turkey]

What do you like to see in an All Mountain Track? Be specific if possible list your top three favourite tracks and the sections that make them your favourite.

As you may have heard a new AM track is going to built at Glenworth Valley soon and I am keen to know what you would like to see especially for those of you that can't make the build days, hopefully this thread can also be used as a source of inspiration for trail builders around the country.

Do you enjoy lots of sweeping berms aka the Luge at Stromlo, big rock features like the top half of Ourimbah and Awaba, how about man made stuff like the see-saw at Taree or wall rides and "North Shore-esq" drops or do you prefer natural off camber corners like Paterson, maybe you salivate for tight technical pinch climbs or fast open fire roads. (Sorry that my examples are NSW bias, I don't get out much. Feel free to throw up some examples of DH, XC or AM tracks from around the country that you want to see incorporated into AM trails)

I don't want to hear anything about racing formats and the like or shuttle vs pedal up just plain and simple what elements make up the tracks that you want to ride.

Gravity, so they need to go down predominantly, then they can be whatever lends itself for the terrain.

 

[evObda2]

Ourimbah Dh track is basically an AM track anyway. So more of that. Fast flowing stuff is good too. But keep it natural. i.e. mostly rough.

 

[willsy01]

Have a read of this

http://flowmountainbike.com/feature...-enduro-world-series-and-the-dh-world-champs/

If anyone knows, it's him.

 

[Gravityfreak]

I don't think the question should be restricted to 'what makes a good AM / GE track' but rather - 'what makes a good G/E event'. I've raced them all over the past couple of years and know what was popular but was not and for what reason (and trust me, this is not biased towards which way my talents lean - this is based on what I heard):

Firstly, let's talk about what GE is supposed to be; an event where riders (A) fitness and endurance and (B) descending skills are tested. For the most part, (A) is tested by getting the riders to practice the track with the minimum of assistance in some cases but almost always having to propel themselves from the end of one special stage (i.e. timed stage) to the next. This may involve riding back up the hill or traverse. (B) is tested in the timed 'special stages' which are heavily biased to towards your ability to go downhill over challenging terrain that you don't know very well - fast.

Does that mean that special stages should have NO climbs or traverses? No it does not. Up to 80% downhill (and not Dh track steep all the time but definitely downhill) seems to be accepted as ideal with perhaps 10% traversing and 10% climbing. What is NOT acceptable is when one 'special stage' at an event (such as track three at Stromlo this year) throws the balance out when times are combined and this is why;

Take a well rounded rider possessing good fitness and good skills who rides tracks 1 & 2 well (which correctly follow the 80/20 Dh/XC ratio as Stromlo tracks 1&2 did). Track 3 however, he does quite poorly in because the track is 20% Dh and 80% XC. The XC guy who does poorly in tracks 1&2 because his skills are not there pulls such a margin in track three that on combined times he beats the first guy - something is wrong with the format. And let's not forget the fun factor - no one likes racing 20/80 tracks.

An example of a well rounded event was Del Rio. Track 1 fitted the 80/20 rule perfectly. Proper DH but then mega sprint at the bottom and a fairly taxing ride to the top. Track two was a lot tamer - but in elevation/mix was probably still close to 80/20. Did the best GE men win on that day - I would say so (and for the record - I sucked that day).

As for what makes a fun track - that is so highly subjective as to be almost irrelevant because some will like natural and nasty - some will like groomed. I love both. What matters is that as a series if not an event - we get variety and that tracks test riders according to a format and ratio that is accepted. If I spend $500 on a race weekend several hundred km's away - I want to know what to expect.

To answer your question directly though Michael, here's my 2c:
Stromlo: tracks 1&2 - awesome. Track 3 - sh*t
Thredbo: Great fun but raced in that format - watered down DH not Gravity Enduro
Del Rio: Track one - perfect. Track 2 Ok. Good event
Ourimbah state round early this year: Great track, followed the 80/20 rule but needed the ENDURO bit and a second and third track. As it stood - watered down DH

Your second track up at Patterson a few weeks back was an excellent excellent GE track. The first track .......... not so much.

 

[outtacontrol]

I think that a good AM track should be technical and fast. Obviously incorporating natural features is better, like nice big rock slabs and the like, but if the terrain doesn't lend itself, then some man made stuff is ok.
We have a cool track up here in Townsville called Rock and Roll, which is a great example of what an AM trail should be. Starts off at the top of the hill , heading down a narrow ridge with lots of stacked big berms. As the ridgeline opens up, so does the trail. It has lots of natural stuff, rock gardens and drops, and some cool man made features.

Pretty much anyone can ride the trail, just gets challenging the faster you go

Couple of the Black Diamond features...

 

[my02]

I don't think the question should be restricted to 'what makes a good AM / GE track' but rather - 'what makes a good G/E event'......

Why? What is the relevance? AFAIK AM is a style of riding: climbs, technical ups and downs, rough in places and potentially a natural terrain. It would probably suit something around the 140-160mm travel mark.

Gravity Enduro is a racing format.

Firstly, let's talk about what GE is supposed to be.....

The OP is asking for feedback on the TYPE of track that readers enjoy riding as their interpretation of AM. His last paragraph states clearly that he wasn't inviting a discussion about event format.

Maybe start your another thread if you want to discuss formats.

 

[Gravityfreak]

Why? What is the relevance? AFAIK AM is a style of riding: climbs, technical ups and downs, rough in places and potentially a natural terrain. It would probably suit something around the 140-160mm travel mark.

Gravity Enduro is a racing format.



The OP is asking for feedback on the TYPE of track that readers enjoy riding as their interpretation of AM. His last paragraph states clearly that he wasn't inviting a discussion about event format.

Maybe start your another thread if you want to discuss formats.

I know the OP and I know what he was asking. I was simply expanding the topic. Free speech and all that petal

 

[pharmaboy]

What made Patto so popular?

Races before or the reputation from the year before? That tells you what people want to ride.

Asking the true believers might not be the right thing, you might want to ask the people who have only just had a first go and like it?

 

[SuchisLife]

Well I would say I fall into the never riddien AM category but looking at getting onto a longer travel bike so i can hit some bigger stuff with more confidence. What my ideal track would be a trail with plenty of natural features that has a nice amount of flow but between numerous well constructed berms, nice technical roll downs, log rollover/drops with some rock gardens or chutes that require a good choice of line selection in order to get through with any form of grace. That and some soft loamy soil with exposed roots. You can keep your north shore, timber artificial features, bridges exempt of course.

 

[indica]

Atherton has some prime examples of what I want from this.
Hard steep climbs and wicked descents. Pretty much up, and then down.
The descents are fast, flowy, with berms, jumps, rock gardens, drops, trees and the odd step down.

 

[outtacontrol]

Atherton has some prime examples of what I want from this.
Hard steep climbs and wicked descents. Pretty much up, and then down.
The descents are fast, flowy, with berms, jumps, rock gardens, drops, trees and the odd step down.

Atherton is very cool, but mostly XC. Lots of climbing, lots of going down, but not much Black Diamond or super technical. Ricochet is the obvious exception...

Flame away....

 

[foxpuppet]

I agree on Del Rio being the best format of the rollercoaster series. The physical nature of riding to the start for each race and practice was a far more enjoyable way to get you going than shuttling. While some were able to go the day before and practice I feel that goes against the so a called spirit of enduro. It seems a lot of riders used to the DH way of doing it want to scope and ride lines over and over again. That's not really what GE is about, a practice or reccy run and then race. It's more fair and a lot more reward for good riding over knowing every little inch of track.

As far as actual tracks are concerned:

At Del Rio the trails were not as well used and a little more natural and unique, especially the grass sandy sections of the Am track through the ferns leading to the creek. It Was something different to a groomed and well used trail like at ourimbah, stromlo or Thredbo.

At ourimbah I think you can start at the top of the DH if you really want to shuttle, but have 3 stages after the first and you have to get to the second and third stage under your own steam. There are many links and diversions there to make it happen. This years Rollercoaster AM trail was really fun and fast and of decent length but lacked the climbing sections to make it really a GE event. The stages are what makes it interesting and help riders become more all round and versatile plus adds time for chatting and having a laugh on the way to the next.

stromlo I didn't get to so no comment, but I know the shuttles and lack of completely closed trails had some people very annoyed. It's a huge trail network so hard to work around with closure to the public. But a lot of room for variation of the stages.

Thredbo didn't get to either, but could be multi day with Thredbo and local trails around crackenback/Jindy combined.


In the EWS especially the tracks from finale ligure they used old forgotten walking trails. These sort of tracks are looser, have unusual features as walkers traverse different routes, Almost unmakeable switchbacks on steep sections. Very little in the way of mods needed for the races. While we don't have the vertical these style of trails look like a lot of fun and can be made possible if we look outside the usual trail styles we have here. In Victoria they seem to have really nice trails for the series down there. Flowing descents leading to good technical traverse and pinch climbs to regain elevation to another flowing descent.

I'd like to know others ideal length of trail and ratio of decent to climb. The 80/20 seems a good mix. I like the idea of 5-15 stage length.

 

[Craven Moorehead]

My top 3 tracks-
1.Wisemans Ferry track 1-proper steep,rocky technical challenging track where it was a mission just to get to the bottom in one piece let alone race down but still had the fitness aspect of riding up to the start.
2.Paterson track 2-if this years track with the extra features had have been the same length as last years with the extra pedalling at the bottom on the xc track it would have been close to the perfect AM track.
3.Ourimbah-it's just too much fun and a great variety of obstacles jumps,berms,rock gardens,flow it's got it all.

I reckon it's just as important to make the tracks challenging physically as well as technically to reward fitness whether that be through length,steep climbs or riding back up to the top.If you get to the finish and you can't taste your lunch you're not really racing.:evil:

 

[cicot]

I haven't ridden much in australia, Youies, Forrest, Maldon and Buxton but here in Italy I ride only alpine tracks and almost all the north west italian GE trails. For me an AM track should be technically challanging, it should have a good bunch of varied features but most of all rocks and roots.
Finale Ligure is a top destination in Italy for enduro thanks to several factors, above all the right balance between artificial and natural obstacles but I think the secret is its limestone shaped in different ways.
Anyway I really enjoyed tracks at Maldon and Junction at Youies.

About flow I found Barel inspiring:

http://mpora.com/videos/AAdg2fpwveo8

 

[Dreggsy]

you can't please everybody.

If only everything as like Klingsporn down at Mt Buller.

 

[8738br]

That track in Narrabeen with the vulgar name has got a bit of everything

 

[Dreggsy]

That track in ??????????? with the vulgar name has got a bit of everything

sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh, keep it secret

 

[Ledbeater]

I'm only a beginner, however for what it's worth... Copperhead at Mt Buller, Cressy at Youies are tracks that I've really enjoyed. They provide a bit of everything for me, and I can learn and practice different skills depending on how hard I can push before a reality checking stack.