moorey
call me Mia
Yeah, nah, I like to drum 2 handed :noidea:I reckon only your right arm looks like that (unless you are left handed
Anyone gone from 29 back to 26" ??
- Thread starter spiderpig
- Start date
The Duckmeister
Has a juicy midrange
Sorry about the bluntness, but that's crap. I've ridden essentially the same packages in 26er & 29er formats, plus a few other combinations as well for balance, and wheelsize (along with necessary geometric compromises) does play a fucking big part in how a bike behaves. Anyone with a vague understanding of basic physics (which is about my level) is aware of the concept of gyroscopic inertia where a rotating object resists a change in direction; the bigger the object, the geater the inertia. That's why 29ers need a different cornering technique than 26ers.
As a not-exceptionally tall rider, I found the geometric compromises required to fit around big wheels resulted in bikes that just felt awkwardly cumbersome most of the time (except one, which ate rocky stuff like nothing else I've ridden), so until I get to try a 27.5" I'm still a 26er rider.
Bodin
GMBC
I know it's a bit of a gravedig, but came across this thread while on a search from another and thought I'd post my thoughts.
After many years of 26ers (back from the mid-90s), I was a bit of an early adopter with 29ers and bought the first Specialized Stumpy 29er (hardtail) one day when all I needed was a new tube for my road bike - this was mid-2008. I just really liked the visual proportions of the 29er wheels on a large frame. I've always thought 26" wheels look just a little too small on anything bigger than a medium.
This started a run of 29ers for me over the next few years where I just couldn't seem to land on one that steered like I wanted it to. I genuinely believed they made me faster on pretty much everything except really tight stuff, but I was definitely slower on super-techie singletrack. The fact that bigger wheels necessitated wider bars was also a problem on any trails where you're constantly squeezing through narrow gaps in trees.
So essentially, I stopped having fun on my favourite trails. I was racing faster in 100km races with lots of open fire trail, but my social riding was suffering at the same time and jumping? Well, I was never that good in the air, but I really sucked at it on big wheels. When you add all that up, I was basically becoming a roadie; the sort of rider I'd despised for more than a decade. Fit and fast in a straight line, but f*(&ing useless on loose corners or jumps.
So, fast forward a few years and I'm looking at a garage with 3 so-so mountain bikes of varying wheel sizes and realising that I don't love any of them and I'm even having trouble deciding which bike to ride on any given day for any trail. It was all getting very demotivational. So the penny dropped, I cracked the shits and put everything MTB-related up for sale. Sold literally everything I'd collected over the years and started from scratch on the search for the perfect 26" "one bike".
Enter the Trek Fuel EX9. Not the best at anything, but pretty bloody good at everything except DH. Looks the goods (even for a 26er) and has all the new mod cons - tapered headtube, 15/142 through axles, floating rear shock, DRCV front and rear, internal stealth routing for the dropper. All the good gear.
It's now been to Rotorua, where it ticked every single trail in the Redwoods except the DH course. I briefly rode a couple of other bikes while I was there, including a new Giant Trance 27.5 and the only thing that told me was how quickly I wanted to get back on my Fuel. I saw some pretty bling bikes while I was over there, but was never ashamed to be out on the Fuel.
And now the Fuel has taken me to the top of B grade and a promotion to A grade at the local dirt crits. Sure, I bought a lighter wheelset for XC racing, but @ $700, it was a lot cheaper than buying a whole new race bike and has given the Fuel some real pep in its step. At the end of the day, I'm a 39 year old workaholic dad who smoked for most of the last 25 years and doesn't have time for any structured training - the fact I'm racing reasonably quickly has a LOT to do with a bike that has mistake-proof handling and simply motivates me to ride my guts out every time I'm on it.
The irony of chucking in 29ers (probably for good now that 27.5 is on the rise) and buying the Fuel was that it was only a few months later that Trek changed the Fuel to a 29er. Do I wish I'd waited those few months and gone with the bigger wheels?
No way. 26 ain't dead for riders like me who aren't overly tall (I'm 185cm / 6'1") and need a single bike to do everything. Absolutely loving it. There's never a single second where I'm thinking "geez, I wish I had x% less rolling resistance over that trail irregularity" (in my opinion this whole "angle of attack" argument is null and void on a dual-suspension bike, but anyway...), but there are moments every time I ride where I wonder how I put up with stupid big wheels for almost 5 years.
Footnote: Imagine my joy when I recently raced a 3 hour enduro in a location generally regarded as "29er heaven" and saw the elite men's winner on.. wait for it... 26".
After many years of 26ers (back from the mid-90s), I was a bit of an early adopter with 29ers and bought the first Specialized Stumpy 29er (hardtail) one day when all I needed was a new tube for my road bike - this was mid-2008. I just really liked the visual proportions of the 29er wheels on a large frame. I've always thought 26" wheels look just a little too small on anything bigger than a medium.
This started a run of 29ers for me over the next few years where I just couldn't seem to land on one that steered like I wanted it to. I genuinely believed they made me faster on pretty much everything except really tight stuff, but I was definitely slower on super-techie singletrack. The fact that bigger wheels necessitated wider bars was also a problem on any trails where you're constantly squeezing through narrow gaps in trees.
So essentially, I stopped having fun on my favourite trails. I was racing faster in 100km races with lots of open fire trail, but my social riding was suffering at the same time and jumping? Well, I was never that good in the air, but I really sucked at it on big wheels. When you add all that up, I was basically becoming a roadie; the sort of rider I'd despised for more than a decade. Fit and fast in a straight line, but f*(&ing useless on loose corners or jumps.
So, fast forward a few years and I'm looking at a garage with 3 so-so mountain bikes of varying wheel sizes and realising that I don't love any of them and I'm even having trouble deciding which bike to ride on any given day for any trail. It was all getting very demotivational. So the penny dropped, I cracked the shits and put everything MTB-related up for sale. Sold literally everything I'd collected over the years and started from scratch on the search for the perfect 26" "one bike".
Enter the Trek Fuel EX9. Not the best at anything, but pretty bloody good at everything except DH. Looks the goods (even for a 26er) and has all the new mod cons - tapered headtube, 15/142 through axles, floating rear shock, DRCV front and rear, internal stealth routing for the dropper. All the good gear.
It's now been to Rotorua, where it ticked every single trail in the Redwoods except the DH course. I briefly rode a couple of other bikes while I was there, including a new Giant Trance 27.5 and the only thing that told me was how quickly I wanted to get back on my Fuel. I saw some pretty bling bikes while I was over there, but was never ashamed to be out on the Fuel.
And now the Fuel has taken me to the top of B grade and a promotion to A grade at the local dirt crits. Sure, I bought a lighter wheelset for XC racing, but @ $700, it was a lot cheaper than buying a whole new race bike and has given the Fuel some real pep in its step. At the end of the day, I'm a 39 year old workaholic dad who smoked for most of the last 25 years and doesn't have time for any structured training - the fact I'm racing reasonably quickly has a LOT to do with a bike that has mistake-proof handling and simply motivates me to ride my guts out every time I'm on it.
The irony of chucking in 29ers (probably for good now that 27.5 is on the rise) and buying the Fuel was that it was only a few months later that Trek changed the Fuel to a 29er. Do I wish I'd waited those few months and gone with the bigger wheels?
No way. 26 ain't dead for riders like me who aren't overly tall (I'm 185cm / 6'1") and need a single bike to do everything. Absolutely loving it. There's never a single second where I'm thinking "geez, I wish I had x% less rolling resistance over that trail irregularity" (in my opinion this whole "angle of attack" argument is null and void on a dual-suspension bike, but anyway...), but there are moments every time I ride where I wonder how I put up with stupid big wheels for almost 5 years.
Footnote: Imagine my joy when I recently raced a 3 hour enduro in a location generally regarded as "29er heaven" and saw the elite men's winner on.. wait for it... 26".
Ha.............exactly what I bought back in Feb. Not particularly light at 12.8kg (no dropper) but for riding north of Melbourne / Castlemaine / Bendigo this is my 'one bike' bike. For me there are no too many places I feel more comfortable on my Giant XTC 29er (maybe Kurrajongat at Youies?)
Wombatone
Likes Dirt
+1 thanks for the laugh
Bodin
GMBC
Kurrajong is exactly where I've been racing the dirt crits. Even there, I'm still not missing my XTC 29er and my Strava times also suggest I have no reason to miss it.
Pretty impressive given the XTC was a full 2kg lighter.
Bodin
GMBC
They'll be racing what their sponsors tell them to race.
26" riders represent!!! :wave:
Funny your post pops up now Bo, I've been meddling with selling the 26" and buying a 29" dually the past few weeks, months even; but I keep coming back to the fact that I've never ridden one that feels "right"... The Titus just feels right in every situationarty:
I might look at 650b when more choice becomes available, but until then it's 26" for me too :thumb:
Funny your post pops up now Bo, I've been meddling with selling the 26" and buying a 29" dually the past few weeks, months even; but I keep coming back to the fact that I've never ridden one that feels "right"... The Titus just feels right in every situation
arty:I might look at 650b when more choice becomes available, but until then it's 26" for me too :thumb:
MountGower
Likes Dirt
Since when do 29" wheels necessitate wider bars? Do I need a wider saddle and wider shoes too?
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
Lols, just thinking the same thing as reading through. There's a lot of stuff in mountain biking that has become accepted truth - bit like religion really......
Bodin
GMBC
The bigger wheel has more inertia (the mass is further out from the hub) and benefits from more leverage (wider bars) to make it turn. Inertia is the force that allows you to ride no-handed; it's what makes the wheel want to move in a straight line *against* the forces that want to turn it. A bigger wheel has more of this, so steering is *factually* harder on a 29er, even if the difference is relatively small, and a wider bar helps here.
Also, when the front wheel gets deflected by a trail obstacle, it in turn has more leverage *against* the bars, making it more difficult for the rider to counter the deflection; again an area where wider bars help. A lot of people blame poor head angles for going over the bars on a 29er, particularly in the early days of horrible 29er geometry, where the school of thought was to improve steering response by making the head angle steeper. In my opinion, I believe the OTB epidemic was also from people underestimating how much the bigger wheels were controlling their handlebars; again an area where wider bars help.
So in a nutshell, wider bars give you more control, especially at speed (i.e. DH bikes) and bigger wheels need more control, so 29ers = wider bars.
You may well need a wider seat and shoes, but this will depend entirely on your diet over the festive season, not so much your choice in wheel size.
clockworked
Like an orange
the larger, heavier wheel produces more centrifugal (is that the right term?) force and needs slightly more force to steer it while rotating. the longer bar provides slightly more leverage
Bodin
GMBC
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
Inertia of a bigger wheel might change he force required to steer by 20%, but this is a change in force of 1kg versus 1.2kg. Never have I heard or felt people say I'm just not strong enough to turn a corner that fast ?!
Control through rock gardens is a different thing altogether and not related to wheel size. That's about allowing the body and muscles more time to absorb and correct a front wheel been thrown of line as we ll as the additional balance that a wider contact point gives you.
BUT, there must be a cost, so stability and looseness through terrain comes at a cost to directness and accuracy. The rougher the terrain the more that stability is going to be valued.
Now it could be that 29ers have made people ride rougher terrain because of confidence and roll ability, more likely it's a fashion trend of the last couple of years that has the xc crowd wanting an excuse for the latest wide carbon bar from CRC.
And yes I'm guilty of it, yes it does change the feel of the bike, but to maintain its a specific need of a 29" wheel is absurd ( unless justifying the $300 enve bar to my wife)
MudRhino
Likes Dirt
Bodin - I was attempting to make a joke, but that thread was an interesting read none the less.
redbruce
Eats Squid
Wide bars were often fitted to overcome the higher inertia (gyro forces) of the bigger wheel to make the steering feel more nimble.
Now they seem to be used on any wheel size.
EDIT: Oops, just read this page.
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Hugor
Likes Dirt
If you want to experience rotational inertia you wanna try turning a fat bike at speed.
Furthermore controlling fat wheel which behaves like a basketball on a rigid fork through rocky terrain requires a lot of leverage.
I ended up putting 740's on my fatty for that reason.
I have never needed wide bars on my 29ers though.
Furthermore controlling fat wheel which behaves like a basketball on a rigid fork through rocky terrain requires a lot of leverage.
I ended up putting 740's on my fatty for that reason.
I have never needed wide bars on my 29ers though.