Asylum Seekers - What should Australia do?

[atschool]

The 260 odd Sri Lankan asylum seekers interecepted near Indonesia have been all over the news lately. Whilst the Indonesian government is prepared to provide them with accommodation in Indonesia, the asylum seekers are seeking refugee status in Australia, threatened to blow up the boat they are on(later withdrawing the threat) and have just ended a two day hunger strike. Their spokesman, 'Alex' claims that they are fleeing 'genocide' in Sri Lanka.

Whilst I consider myself quite liberal with respect to most issues with regards to the asylum seekers I have some reservations. In this particular case, I think one problem is that whilst the refugees are claiming to be fleeing genocide, they have refused to stay in Indonesia. Surely if your life is in danger, wouldn't Indonesia be good enough?

Generally, I think the main problem with asylum seekers are:

-by accepting asylum seekers we are, in effect, condoning people smuggling and sending a message to people all over the world that it is a means of getting to Australia

-with the lack of language skills(and in some cases education), the asylum seekers will likely have problems integrating into the Australian way of life and gaining employment

-accepting large numbers of refugees from a particular country may lead to the refugees segregating themselves leading to the formation of gangs and increased crime rates

What do you guys think?

 

[cretin...rider]

I really think that we should tell them to go away and that we as a country are not excepting them. (putting flame suit on as we speak) You have hit the nail on the head in saying it send the message to the rest of the world that we will except anyone in "need".

I come from a town that is quiet multi cultural and have noticed that they don't integrate into australian society, not all but most, and tend to form small groups in the community effectively breaking the community up and causing conflict. When they do form into groups of their ethnic background they also do not learn Australian customs and the language we speak causing on going problems.

I'm not directing this at anyone just putting what i have seen locally into perspective, and also not saying that any of the asylum seekers are bad.

 

[Hopper]

I don't know how true this is but (any sentance starting with this is always gonna be awsome) I heard that the smugglers can charge ridiculous amounts of money to smuggle you into a country, I'm talking thousands of dollars. If this is ture is there another, more legal way, that assylum seekers can try to get out of their country?

 

[Arete]

There's lots of issues tangled up in this debate... besides the moral argument that given we have the resources to accept displaced people and therefore we should, when we actively involve ourselves in conflicts like Afghanistan and Iraq that are inevitably going to displace people, we should accept some of the responsibility for looking after those people.

That said, I'm told by people more expert than I am in the field that Australia has a pretty good outbound refugee program (i.e. the refugees apply for asylum whilst still in their own country and immigrate after asylum is granted).

Australia's illegal immigration problem is miniscule compared to European nations and the US. Tiny. It's a political soapbox that our politicans like to clamber up on every time they need to push attention away from other issues.

Yet almost all those other countries manage to deal with their illegal immigrants without imprisoning them, especially not for extended periods outside of the country away from adequate legal resources. The way we've been handling illegal immigrants is internationally recognized as below standard, and we need to do it better. I personally think that if we can manage prisoners on parole, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to manage illegal immigrants who have pending refugee applications in a similar way, or if we are going to detain people, it should be for set periods of time.

As for refugees forming enclaves and ghettos - there's always going to be cultural clashes and integration issues with immigrants of any kind, especially those that come form war zones, dictatorships,disaster zones, etc.

I look at it this way - if I had to move to Japan tomorrow or get shot by the government, and I met another Aussie over there, I wouldn't be speaking in broken Japanese to them, I'd be talking in English, because we both speak it better than we speak Japanese. I'd probably try to live with other English speakers, because trying to do everything in a language I barely understand would suck. I'd also like to do a few things the way I did them back home - cook barbies, wear thongs etc... so I'd probably end up in an Australian or at least western "ghetto" where I could get sausages and double pluggers.

Sure I'd try to fit in, but I'd probably never speak really good Japanese, and probably prefer to read English Newspapers etc. I'd probably have a higher proportion of English speaking friends than your average local.... etc.

So yeah. I totally see where asylum seekers are coming from in the non integration sense. Expecting them to suddenly become ocker is unrealistic and stupid. Getting rid of the crime, gangs, etc. will take resources and hard work undoubtedly, but I personally reckon we made that bed when we get involved in international conflicts.

 

[Regan of Gong]

I don't know how true this is but (any sentance starting with this is always gonna be awsome) I heard that the smugglers can charge ridiculous amounts of money to smuggle you into a country, I'm talking thousands of dollars. If this is ture is there another, more legal way, that assylum seekers can try to get out of their country?

Generally, those using people smugglers to get out of a country need to use them. For example, they may be detained by the government at the border- the Kurds in Iraq during the late 80's/early 90's are an example. I'm not sure exactly what's happening in Sri Lanka at the moment, but there's still something of the civil war going on in some parts, and I don't imagine the government would let anyone leave easily who was part of it, even if they were just legitimate civilians in the war zone. I'm definitely no expert though, so please, someone correct me.

 

[adman]

Coming from England, you see a problem on a much larger scale than Australia.

Thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants walk through the train tunnel under the english channel, popping out in central london and hoping to make a living.

Since the news that it was easy has spread of all of europe and beyond, it has become harder and harder for england to refuse people the money they are asking for and so the problem is worse.

Personally, I don't think Australia should be so leaneant - I know it's hard to say that to people who are facing famine, tortue, death. etc. God it's a tough argument.

 

[Kingswood]

It's a tough issue that I dont know enough about.

Arete has hit a nail on the head for me, of course people will group together, firstly because they are in a state of stress and confusion so it's natural and secondly because they aren't exactly invited into every Australian home for a BBQ and a new southern cross tattoo are they?

I really try and empathize with these people.

Think for a minute, that China didn't want to buy all our coal anymore, they just wanted to move in, shoot everyone, and take it. We find our wonderful relationship with the US disappears as they dont want to upset the Chinese, and they also see the chance for some free uranium.
So you find yourself on a boat, you dont want to be on the boat, you would rather be at home having a snooze, but you are on a shit boat in the middle of nowhere.
You think you are in a horrible situation, and that any country would see that you have been wronged. But you find countries actively work to stop you getting to their shores. News crews hover overhead, and the citizens of those countries really really hate you.

So whats the solution? I dont have one, but we cant just shut the gate on people, and this political crap we get fed to keep a bunch of lucky, racist, "A Current Affair" watching wankers happy really shits me.

Most of us live in Australia because we where lucky to be born here, it wasn't because of good management, total luck, so how can we deny a safe space to someone who needs it?

 

[Link]

I think that people are too keen to argue politics on this issue rather than confronting the reality at international law. If someone gets to Australian territory and seeks asylum, Australia must process their claim. As a result of various treaty arrangements, it is my understanding that is it not open to the Australian government to simply send back legitimate asylum seekers from whence they came. Why do you think that so much effort is put into stopping the boats and not just rounding people up when they get here? Why do you think that Christmas Island was excised from our migration zone?

The debate about whether Australia should accept such people is redundant. The argument, and your political efforts if you are actually passionate about this issue, should be directed towards the potential pros and cons of either abandoning our association with such treaties or the possibility of offloading the refugees to other 'safe' countries that agree to accept them. To simply say that we should not accept such people misses the legal (and indeed diplomatic) reality that faces Australia.

 

[t]

Generally, those using people smugglers to get out of a country need to use them. For example, they may be detained by the government at the border- the Kurds in Iraq during the late 80's/early 90's are an example. I'm not sure exactly what's happening in Sri Lanka at the moment, but there's still something of the civil war going on in some parts, and I don't imagine the government would let anyone leave easily who was part of it, even if they were just legitimate civilians in the war zone. I'm definitely no expert though, so please, someone correct me.

If your born in a break-away country that isn't recognised by the UN and the UN says that you are technically a citizen of a country your at war with it makes it extremely difficult to get a passport.

 

[wambiri]

destroy the boat.
and
all upon the boat.

 

[indica]

destroy the boat.
and
all upon the boat.

You are a fuckhead and should be banned from life.

No idea.

To the O.P. - 260 is fuckall.
Let them in, we have a great country , great economy.

 

[leitch]

It always seems bizarre to me that business, travel, trade, politics and culture are such globalised commodities and so widely shared, and yet borders remain so closed to migration.

Let them in. Watching that Alex dude on the news the other night, he speaks better English and clearly is more intelligent than at least a third of the Australian population.

 

['Ross]

Bring back Howard!

 

[wespelarno]

Anyone who is caught as an illegal immigrant should be given a temporary assylum visa. They can then be released into the public on similair to parole terms. This visa would last until their case has been sensibly researched and their visa status either confirmed or denied. If denied they could then be transported home. If allowed, it would be allowed on certain conditions (I have no idea what yet)

This would get around the immprisonment issue, both human rights and cost to government.

The terms for the assylum visa would require a regular check in with a "visa agent" or something similair to make sure they haven't gone underground. The visa agent should fullfill the role of a parole/rehabilitation officer, make them apply for jobs, help them get life back into some semblance of order. This would them working, be partial selfsustaining with the intention of become independant, and eventually start contributing back to the community. While some immigrants will cluster together to form micro cultures and rely on government payouts, another portion are damn grateful for having made it somewhere else, and will work as hard as they can to get their lives back into shape. Others may want to but don't see a way to do it.

Obviously this won't work immediately and will never be 100% effective, but it has potential as a ground plan. But I just don't see imprisonment as a long term solution. Outright letting people in does just encourage assylum seekers (I'm seeking assylum from China's one child policy...), but imprisonment doesn't exactly act as a deterrent.

 

[patto_15]

Personally, i think the boat should be knocked back.. Either they go to Indonesia or go home!

If we, as a country, accept and let them in onto our shores, it will be seen as a precedent to asylum seekers knowing on how in which they are able to get into the country.

 

[Oliver.]

To the O.P. - 260 is fuckall.
Let them in, we have a great country , great economy.

"You are a fuckhead and should be banned from life.

No idea."

 

[gooser]

I think that compared to other nations our "immigration problem" is quite insignificant, given that we have the space and resources to accomodate those in-need I think we (as a Country) should be willing to accept people.
Given that Australia's involvement in World Conflict is once again 'healthy' it would be safe to assume that our Troops, sent by our Government have put some of these immigrants out of home and country, and it's probably alot more that have been put out than are asking for our help.
Just my opinion, Cheers.

 

[Yeti-Brenno]

.

idea ?
they could build a large fence

 

[fairy1]

I think if they can make it to Tassie they should be allowed to stay there.

 

[sunny]

When refugees arrive in Australia they have access to AMEP (Australian English Migrant Program) for a certain amount of hours. Once these hours have been used, they can then access additional English tuition for anywhere up to two years if they require it (LLNP - Language, Literacy and Numeracy Programs). In addition to this, many will also require torture and trauma counselling depending on where they have come from.

Quite often I hear people stating refugees must go 'through the right channels', however, where they are coming from, these channels just do not exist. Also, the off-shore visa's which are granted can take some time, and it is not uncommon for people to be in refugee camps overseas for 20-25 years, with kids being born and raised in these camps.

Many of the people who flee are no longer able to stay in their country for things we cannot imagine here is Australia, and do not have the luxury of choosing to immigrate. Many do not have the time to wait to have an off-shore visa granted. Many cannot contact family that may still remain in their homeland. Many will never be able to return to their homeland.

Yes, once they arrive you might find pockets of ethnic groups. Being able to communicate easily with people around you is something most people take for granted. Also, being around people who understand your culture is very important - as culture often determines our behaviour towards other people. Many other things need to be taken into consideration when thinking about assimilation - it's not just learning to speak English, and getting a job.

There are many different issues which need to be address when considering asylum seekers and refugees, it's not just a matter of do we or don't we let them in.