Avalanche Hybrid Coil Upgrade

[EsPeGe]

Hi all, so I've just ordered this for my Fox 40's. Super keen to see how it goes. It's about 4 weeks away but I'll let you all know what it's like when it's done. The idea is you can drop the pressure in the air side to match the support of the damper side. That way there is no lateral "stiction" on the fork. Apparently its a lot more like a motocross damper set up.

Hybrid Coil Damper

Super excited.

 

[kten]

What else can be said apart from fuck yeah!!

 

[EsPeGe]

What else can be said apart from fuck yeah!!

I know right? I can't wait to drop the thing in and give it a good work out. I spoke with Craig the owner and head guy at Avalanche and he said he's confident that I'll like it so much that I'll end up converting my Fox 36's as well. We'll see.

 

[EsPeGe]

Ok so it's finally arrived. I've fitted it today and will post up a review once I've done some testing at Thredbo next week. There were some issues I feel I should report.

Firstly it took 8 weeks instead of the 3-4 they promised. There was a pretty fair reason for this that I won't share as it's not my business but I will say that if they had told me that at the start I would've been fine with it. Instead I got multiple promises on a weekly basis until I told them I would cancel the order if it kept up. Once that happened the stories stopped and the damper was shipped within a couple of days. They were really apologetic and to their credit accepted full responsibility and upgraded the shipping to express, which I thought I had already paid for mind you.

Then I had a few questions in regards to installation which is when things took a turn. Now, to be clear up front, installing this damper was something I had not done before, I had (at the time) no idea how it would work but was confident I could figure it out. During our emailing back and forth, Craig (the owner, designer and tuner of Avalanche) told me to refer to the Rockshox manual for his speed sensitive damper as he had not yet done a manual for the install on Fox 40's. When I looked at it I had a rough idea of what I needed to do to install it but had some questions.

So I rang Craig......

Straight out of the gate I got grief over the fact that I didn't know how to do the install as it was so easy. "Anyone that has worked on motorcoss forks will install this in minutes" well I haven't and explained this. The conversation then went more like I haven't got time to explain this to you, if you don't know how to do this then the product isn't for you. I was gob smacked to say the least and I told him that he'd made me feel like I was pretty dumb. It pissed me off. I pointed out that whilst I was not planning rocket trajectories in my spare time I was both an air traffic controller and a helicopter pilot and therefore not without some intelligence and that I was sure I could figure it out with a little help.

Finally I got him answering a few of my questions. We spoke about that stuff for about another 20 minutes which did help a bit and answered a few questions but I had more.

Eventually the conversation went back to my stupidity and how inept I was. This went on for a while and in the end I just kept just "nodding and smiling" if you get my drift. Craig sensed that I was unhappy with this and said "I still feel you are disgruntled" to which I replied "I'm not disgruntled about the product as I haven't tried it yet obviously but I am unhappy with how I'd been spoken down to for 20 minutes". Again Craig suggested that maybe this product wasn't for me and rather than have an unhappy customer he'd rather just refund me. It was possibly the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. So you don't want a disgruntled customer but you are happy to spend the best part of an hour telling them how stupid they are????

He also mentioned on numerous times that he is a small operation and doesn't have time to explain something so easy to stupid people (I'm paraphrasing) what I took from that was that he was happy to sell it but doesn't want to spend the time after sale to help customers. I said that "had he just taken 5 minutes to answer my questions he could've been off the phone and back his other customers" but he wouldn't listen. After about 45 minutes I finally lost my shit and said a naughty word, not directly at Craig but in regards to how I was being treated and he abruptly said "I'll send you a refund" and hung up.

So I rang him back a few minutes later to sort it out. I want the damper despite the bullshit he was carrying on with as I know the stuff he makes is really good even if his phone manner is garbage.

We talk for another 10 minutes or so which is when Craig tells me the reason for their slow service etc which may also explain his attitude on the phone to some extent. I won't go into it here, it's private and no ones business but is the reason I'll cut them some slack. Some, not a lot. Finally I feel like I've got enough info to do the install and we hang up, I wouldn't go as far as happy but amicably.

 

[Oddjob]

I don't know whats up with Craig but he was way better on the communication front when I dealt with him a few years ago. Hopefully the damper and spring make up for it.



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[EsPeGe]

So after that here are some pics of the Hybrid Coil Damper to replace the Fit4 in the Fox 40's. I installed it this morning. To help I did some youtubing and found a video of a motocross damper install which cleared up a heap of questions. It took about 45 minutes to remove the forks, pull the old damper out, remove the bottom out buffer, clean the lowers and the stanchion, re-install the stanchion, drop in damper and bolt it down, fill the leg with fluid, bleed it, install the spring, and top caps, tighten it all up and re-install the forks. It wasn't very hard once you had some decent instructions.

It's a well engineered bit of kit.

Left to right - Blue Pinch bolt, preload spacer (grey ring and grey tube) , Spring adaptor (White ring) top cap with rebound adjsuter.

Bottom nut with compression adjuster.

I had to wait a week for the right oil to turn up. When I asked Craig if there were other alternatives more readily available I got another lecture on oils etc so I thought fuck it, I'll get the right stuff.

 

[EsPeGe]

So I have some questions for you suspension gurus out there regarding open bath dampers.

1, Do I have to re-bleed the damper if the bike has been upside down? You know, you get a flat so trailside you flip the bike upside down to get it fixed?

2, If not why not? There is 160mm of air above the oil level so why doesn't that air get down into the damper if the bike is laid on it's side or upside down?

Cheers Scott.

 

[Oddjob]

So I have some questions for you suspension gurus out there regarding open bath dampers.

1, Do I have to re-bleed the damper if the bike has been upside down? You know, you get a flat so trailside you flip the bike upside down to get it fixed?

2, If not why not? There is 160mm of air above the oil level so why doesn't that air get down into the damper if the bike is laid on it's side or upside down?

Cheers Scott.

I'm assuming that its the same spring backed damper that I've got.

No. Unless you cycle the damper while its upside down.

Essentially the only time oil should migrate from the damper to the open bath or vice versa is when its cycling.


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[safreek]

He sounds like a true tosser. All I have to say

 

[Flow-Rider]

So I have some questions for you suspension gurus out there regarding open bath dampers.

1, Do I have to re-bleed the damper if the bike has been upside down? You know, you get a flat so trailside you flip the bike upside down to get it fixed?

2, If not why not? There is 160mm of air above the oil level so why doesn't that air get down into the damper if the bike is laid on it's side or upside down?

Cheers Scott.

It will have an IFP with a spring behind it and either have a relief cut into the shaft or holes drilled to get the rid of the excess oil to make it circulate, if they're like other similar dampers they should self bleed to a point if they suck in a little bit of air.

 

[EsPeGe]

I'm assuming that its the same spring backed damper that I've got.

No. Unless you cycle the damper while its upside down.

Essentially the only time oil should migrate from the damper to the open bath or vice versa is when its cycling.


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Cheers mate.

 

[EsPeGe]

It will have an IFP with a spring behind it and either have a relief cut into the shaft or holes drilled to get the rid of the excess oil to make it circulate, if they're like other similar dampers they should self bleed to a point if they suck in a little bit of air.

Thanks mate. Good to know. I freaked out yesterday when I was getting ready to install it back on the bike I flipped it over to check the nut on the bottom was secure and I could hear the fluid sloshing around. I thought fuck I’ve just bled that, should I do so again??? I didn’t and it’s good to know I won’t need to all the time.
I do wonder though given the amount of sloshing around the fluid must do when you bash through a rock garden at warp speed how the damper can work effectively. Clearly it does work, just interesting thoughts.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Thanks mate. Good to know. I freaked out yesterday when I was getting ready to install it back on the bike I flipped it over to check the nut on the bottom was secure and I could hear the fluid sloshing around. I thought fuck I’ve just bled that, should I do so again??? I didn’t and it’s good to know I won’t need to all the time.
I do wonder though given the amount of sloshing around the fluid must do when you bash through a rock garden at warp speed how the damper can work effectively. Clearly it does work, just interesting thoughts.

I haven't had an indepth look at them but they generally use valving that is designed to cope with aerated oil, they're a primitive design but they seem to work OK. I've played with Marzocchi open baths and the amount of oil they circulated was minuscule on compression.

 

[ForkinGreat]

@EsPeGe I had always read on forums that Avalanche made good kit. I hope all the bullshit you had to endure was worth it.
IMO, doesn't matter what is going on in a person's personal life. no-one in business gets a free pass to call someone a dumbcunt. especially if they lied to you about why goods you paid for had not been dispatched.
Again, I hope it's an awesome upgrade for your fork.

 

[T-Rex]

Thanks for the heads up in your post #4. I don’t care how well engineered the product is, I will not be dealing with this business based on your experience.

Best wishes with getting your forks sorted, for the amount of effort you have put in and the grief you have put up with, you deserve a good result.

 

[EsPeGe]

I had always read on forums that Avalanche made good kit. I hope all the bullshit you had to endure was worth it.

#Me too..... I think it will be. When I first spoke to him before ordering he was super enthusiastic and definitely knows his shit.

IMO, doesn't matter what is going on in a person's personal life. no-one in business gets a free pass to call someone a dumbcunt. especially if they lied to you about why goods you paid for had not been dispatched.

Agree mate. It's just not real professional.

 

[EsPeGe]

Thanks for the heads up in your post #4. I don’t care how well engineered the product is, I will not be dealing with this business based on your experience.

Best wishes with getting your forks sorted, for the amount of effort you have put in and the grief you have put up with, you deserve a good result.

Thanks mate and fair enough, I get that. I certainly won't be going back no matter how good the damper is. I am also going to post on MTBR my experience. I know for a fact Craig is on there as I have read his posts. My intention is not to get into a flame war with him but give him a chance to reply as I feel it's only fair. Too many people are willing to troll folks or post shit about people without the chance for them to reply. To me that's a bullshit act. Maybe he'll read it and with the benefit of hindsight realise he made a dick of himself and apologize. And maybe I'm dreaming.

 

[Oddjob]

Thanks mate and fair enough, I get that. I certainly won't be going back no matter how good the damper is. I am also going to post on MTBR my experience. I know for a fact Craig is on there as I have read his posts. My intention is not to get into a flame war with him but give him a chance to reply as I feel it's only fair. Too many people are willing to troll folks or post shit about people without the chance for them to reply. To me that's a bullshit act. Maybe he'll read it and with the benefit of hindsight realise he made a dick of himself and apologize. And maybe I'm dreaming.

Post the link to mtbr when you do.

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[kten]

There was a thread on MTBR a while back about him being a dick to another customer. I think his father had died around this time and as terrible as that is I don't think there's really any excuse to use your customers as a verbal punching bag. I'm curious to know the circumstances this time that you say are a pretty fair reason for the delay etc or if it's the same thing that he's still processing....not ideal whatever it is.

I have a shock sitting here that I was going to send to him, the other thread made me hesitant but this one has now made me reluctant to give him my money.

 

[Live2DieTrying]

It will have an IFP with a spring behind it...

The damper in the pic is an open bath model. No IFP in there.

Craig should have just told you to refer to an old marzocchi service manual, as the installation procedure would be mostly the same.