Back when I.....Old bloke Rant!

[cam-o]

Lately there seems to have been a heap of posts along the lines of
"I've got a such and such, can I do DH/XC/DJ on it?", followed by a storm
of "oh my god no, if you do DH on a street bike the world will implode"

Is it just me or are we all getting a bit hung up on specialised bikes (not the brand) and taking some of the fun out of it?
I get the point of having different bikes for different things, hell I've got a DH rig and a trail bike myself. What I don't get is the notion that you can't do certain things on certain bikes. Of course you can, they may not do it as well but sheeit, get out there and give it a crack.

I find it especially wierd when newcomers are told they can't (for example) go ride DH on a street bike. If they are nOObs, do you think they're likely to be busting it up large enough to snap frames?

I kinda miss the days when the difference between DH and XC bikes was the helmet you wore when riding 'em


</OLD BLOKE RANT>

 

[toodles]

between DH and XC bikes was the helmet you wore when riding 'em

You had different helmets? Luxury!

I remember Johnny T raccing Mammoth in the old XC helmet with the stretch lycra cover on it.


*mumble, mumble* 40 miles to school in the snow, carrying my brother, no shoes, uphill BOTH ways, while the Germans bombed us *mumble, mumble*

edit - actually I think half the reason people say you can't do this or that on such and such a bike is because "back in the day" bikes weren't nearly as specialised as they are now. The sorta did everything (badly) whereas now bikes have developed and evolved to become quite specialised for the niche their marketed to suit. A DH bike back in '96 really wasn't that different from an XC bike of the same year. Now they're worlds apart, and the components aren't so suitable from one discipline to the other. Another reason is that courses have developed substantially. That is, DH courses are pretty full on to develop on par with the bikes we have now and yes, you would die trying to hit a 35' gap with Judy SLs or SIDs.

Marketing also tends to suggest that we need a new bike for every style of riding imaginable. "Pedalling your DH bike will void warranty"

Gotta say I miss the days of the "do-everything" bike though...

 

[cam-o]

You had different helmets? Luxury!

I remember Johnny T raccing Mammoth in the old XC helmet with the stretch lycra cover on it.

Actually no, not at first. 1st time I rode Thredbo was on a HT with 1" forks and cantis. XC helmet, gloves (fingerless) and that's it. Scared the absolute bejeesus out of me

Johnny T, he was the man!
XC saturday, DH sunday, ride home........

 

[FR Drew]

And having Jase and Neil drag me down Blue Range on the 22 inch hardtail Mongoose with Rockshox Jett's (20mm of elastomer travel right there) was sooo much fun too.

 

[BrumbyJack]

I think its just a case of having the right bike for the job makes it easier....

If you have a bike that does everything, it won't do anything very well.

My bike is a bit of a hybrid... I mainly do XC on it, but I've ridden it on the bottom of Cannonball as well. I finally managed to ride Cannonball on an 8 inch travel freeride machine and it was SOOOOOOO much easier and so much more fun!!!!!

After having done that I have the absolute utmost respect for my tiny little daughter (10) who has raced on Canonball on a Giant XC bike with 4 inches of travel!!!! Hell, she rides so smoothly that she only uses about half of it!!!! I always thought she was pretty guttsy, now I know it for sure!!!

After a year of my son doing everything on the one bike... and eventually killing it, we now know that he needs a lighter bike for XC so he can kick butt even harder... and build his current bike up to be heavier and stronger to be an urban assault missile.

Yes, you can do it all on the one bike.... but it is so much easier to do it better on the right bike

 

[konasaurus]

Hey this season if i dont get a dh bike i will be attempting to race on my single speed On one ........... i am sure it is going to be a ball

 

[floody]

I agree Cam...
I also agree that the old bikes weren't so effective at anything too...
But it was fun when one bike was a XC/DH/FR/Trials/Slalom/Jump/Commuter and even fun criterium ride with slicks on....
Sure, it may not have been great at anything, but ok at everything.

DH has definitely narrowed its equipment requirements, jumps mainly being the big thing, that and as suspension has come in it has made tracks rougher (rip up braking areas more mainly).

But yeah, the do everything bike has disappeared. Even what people are calling all mountain is just (what was) an XC bike with a bit more travel, XC has become roadies with small wheels and straight bars
Theres stuff like the sasquatch, but then they're too heavy to ride anywhere..

I remember a time when my hardtail, kitted for downhill and general thrashing, still weighed under 30lb and didn't break much...In fact I can recall doing DH races on a fully rigid sub 24lb bike with 2.1 tyres, 3 rings and STX SE canti brakes... I also remember when a set of risers, short stem, fat 2.1 or 2.2 tyres and , if you were loaded, a chainguide made for a reasonably serious DH rig, regardless of frame...

I dunno, its cool where we are now, but there needs to be something burlier than all mountain and less burly than "shore" (norco's bikes being the best example).

 

[and1]

After having done that I have the absolute utmost respect for my tiny little daughter (10) who has raced on Canonball on a Giant XC bike with 4 inches of travel!!!! Hell, she rides so smoothly that she only uses about half of it!!!!

Are you sure its not to do with the fact that most 10 year old girls dont weight that much so 4 inches is pretty ample?

 

[scblack]

Are you sure its not to do with the fact that most 10 year old girls dont weight that much so 4 inches is pretty ample?

Yes, kinda like yourself, and1.

But the difference is, she uses half her suspension, and you only have half a brain (which you fail to use anyway).



BrumbyJack, your daughter is doing bloody fantastic to be riding down there - you are right to be proud!

 

[BrumbyJack]

Are you sure its not to do with the fact that most 10 year old girls dont weight that much so 4 inches is pretty ample?

True, but her brother is only 5kg heavier and he is always bottoming it out just on gutters etc.

 

[cam-o]

I'm not so much worried about people having different bikes for different stuff. If you've got the wedge then get a quiver of bikes, good luck to you and I'm jealous. I'm more talking about people who only have the 1 bike thinking they can't go ride a DH track because their bike is a Street, DJ or XC bike.
If you only own 1 bike, ride it eveywhere!
Maybe take it easy on the 15 foot drops, but just get out there.

 

[Juls]

Well my DH Freeride bike.. is a Bastard to do Trials and pedal kicking ect on.. let alone ride 10km to work on with a single ring....

Admittedly I can still hop up a set of stairs one by one (without putting my feet down) and stuff like that.. but hell it's hard! LOL

2nd bike would be nice..

But yeh, I think if you have a HT, with a suspension fork, pretty much almost nothing is impossible to be honest. Even most Duallys, you can do nearly everything.

It's only when you start talking like Road bikes, All carbon ect, or a Full Blow DH bike, that you get limited.

it's either end of the scale that your limited, but all that stuff in between, is not really limited to anything, even if they are designed for specific purposes.

Kind regards
Juls

 

[chips_with_everything]

suspension travel

Since the purpose of suspension is to smooth out bumps surely the travel is determined by the size of the bumps you want to smooth.



Nothing to do with the weight of the rider- right?
So the smooth riding that uses little travel (assuming the suspension rate is set soft for the weight) is absolutely excellent technique, right?



Does a 1 tonne car have a foot of travel?
Of course not, unless you want to drive it up stairs.

 

[Colonel]

I agree totally Cam, run what you brung should be what MTB riding should be all about, I know it certainly was when I first started. Mind you back then there were no specialist bikes, they were all full rigids (showing my age a little)!

I think people get far too caught up in the trends in the sport these days, it's like "Righto SPV is the biz, if your bike hasn't got a platform, it's crap"....Bollocks! Your bike is still as good as it ever was, it's just that there may be something slightly better, but is it worth forking out big bucks? Do you have that much more enjoyment when riding it? I'm still riding my 1999 model Bear DH bike and six years in DH terms is old, guess what it's still a peach of a bike. I was thinking of upgrading my suspension to 40's and a DHX, but do I really need to? Nope.

I can honestly say that I'll still be riding the same bike in another 5 years and it'll still be a good bike, why? Because technology can only improve that much more, so bike companies have to start working out how to keep us buying products. This may seem a cynical view to take but I think it's true. There was a discussion here recently about Manitou discontinuing some of their forks and the general consensus was that after 2 years they were due for a change because they were perceived to be "old". Hmm Boxxers have been around how long and apart from a damping change (to HC2) and a few other relatively minor changes have remained the same, by the same rationale they must be prehistoric. People are still winning races on them so they're still doing their job??

I think people (particularly new people to the sport) have got to get over the perceived snobbery in some aspects of the sport. So you wanna do runs on a full rigid SS? Sick! Run what you brung mate that's what it's about, as Cam said if you're cashed up and can afford to have a stable of rigs that's cool too, but you shouldn't feel you need to to enjoy what we've got.

Cheers

 

[GeoffR]

The range and choice of bikes today is amazing.
When I got my very first bike about the only choice you had was whether it was fixed wheel (with a hand brake on the rear wheel if you were lucky), or freewheel with 'back pedal' brakes. Later came such high tech developments as Sturmey Archer 3 speed gear hubs.
Now I'm showing my age!!

 

[Juls]

but you shouldn't feel you need to enjoy what we've got.

I'm not allowed to enjoy my bike anymore

Anyway I think the point missed in this thread, and the point people are missing, why other people suggest using a "specific purpose bike" is because it's simply safer to do so.

If you want to go Huck off 10ft drops on your X/C bike, Expect it to snap in half.

You don't just grab any bike and go DJ with it, because if the bike isn't tough enough to cope with it, you will severely hurt yourself when it fails.

Fer sure, give everything a go with what you have.. but to rant and say you can do it all with any bike, is irresponsible and asking for yourself and others to get hurt.

As a person who's broken many parts, and broken parts using them for things they where not designed for, I'll be the first person to admit I try to use my bike for everything, but i've learned the hard way over and over.. and I have scares on my face to this day from accidents resulted by improper use of my bike (which caused it to fail) to remind me to only use my bike for what it was designed for.

Bikes are specific these days for many a reason, and one of them is Safety.

Kind regards
Juls

 

[scratchy]

You had different helmets? Luxury!

I remember Johnny T raccing Mammoth in the old XC helmet with the stretch lycra cover on it.

Man, your newbie new school.

I remember Johnny T back in the old days before colour and everything was black and white, riding only one of two Manitou suspension forks in existance. There is a crazy photo of him doing a DH, with these, AND ROADIE DROP BARS it was somewhere like Mamouth, and Doug Bradbury (Manitou fork man) was shitting himself because Johnny T was hitting the waterbars so hard there was a buzzing sound. It was the tyres toping out on the fork crown 8-0 !!!!

It's a great photo downhilling in a full tuck on the drop bars, I looked for it but couldn't find it so I brought you these shots instead.

 

[floody]

There was a discussion here recently about Manitou discontinuing some of their forks and the general consensus was that after 2 years they were due for a change because they were perceived to be "old". Hmm Boxxers have been around how long and apart from a damping change (to HC2) and a few other relatively minor changes have remained the same, by the same rationale they must be prehistoric. People are still winning races on them so they're still doing their job??

The comment on manitou was to do with the fact that, well apart from the 1-2-3-4 Manitou, the basic model life of their forks has always been 2-3 generations. Think back -Mach 5, X-vert, Black, Sherman...

As for Boxxers, come on, they are nothing like the original fork, every revision of 1-2 years has been substantially different to the last. Just because its the same name doesn't make it the same fork.

 

[floody]

It's a great photo downhilling in a full tuck on the drop bars, I looked for it but couldn't find it so I brought you these shots instead.

Ooooh! AccuTrax rigids! nice!

 

[Colonel]

The comment on manitou was to do with the fact that, well apart from the 1-2-3-4 Manitou, the basic model life of their forks has always been 2-3 generations. Think back -Mach 5, X-vert, Black, Sherman...

As for Boxxers, come on, they are nothing like the original fork, every revision of 1-2 years has been substantially different to the last. Just because its the same name doesn't make it the same fork.

OK it's a slight over simplification, however my point is that there are some manufacturers out there that seem to re-invent their product every other generation instead of refining it. I think the basic model life should and can be longer than 2-3 generations, by all means I'm not saying that the forks shouldn't get improved over time. All I'm saying is we shouldn't feel pressured by the fad aspect of the sport, Ben Reid is a prime example, he's still ripping it up on an ATX-2 (albeit a modified one) and doing quite well.