Bafang mid drive conversion kits

gillyske

Likes Dirt
Has anyone here had exerpience with these kits for trail use? Mainly have questions about durability.

How would they handle jumps, drops, repeated rock gardens or even the dreaded bb smash?

I'm thinking about converting my Vitus Sommet as I have seen 1 done on another forum and wouldn't mind something to use for when I only have an hour to ride.
 

Mr Crudley

Eats Squid
Has anyone here had exerpience with these kits for trail use? Mainly have questions about durability.

How would they handle jumps, drops, repeated rock gardens or even the dreaded bb smash?
I have a friend that bolted one onto a V10 to see how it goes. It works but the issue was that the torque generated was a bit much for the clamp that held the it onto the frame and was a weak point. They might have addressed this in later models.

I recently had a ride of a rental city eBike with the Bafang hub motor driving the front wheel.
Worked well in that environment and went pretty hard for what it is.
 
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Calvin27

Eats Squid
Between me and my mate we have done a few. A few notes:

  • Depends on power level the system is generally not bad. anything above 750w, I'd recommend not using a clamp style mid drive. It can bedone and works, but if you are planning to mtb on it, it does work itself loose and you will need to apply alternative solutions to fasten.
  • BB smash is unavoidable. Try not to do it. The units are solid but the mounting not so much - see above.
  • The only real bit that might go is the nylon gear. Relatively easy to replace and I've seen 2 fail in my time. Mate out on the trails and than a random stranger on the commuting bike path. A third has been making noises but replaced with a metal one before it crapped itself. Not sre if this is relevant given we hvaen't bought a bafang in 2 years so might have been an early design problem.
 

CHEWY

Eats Squid
All e-bike put out about 600w peak power, are they all illegal for use on public trails?
 

Ackland

Likes Bikes and Dirt
All e-bike put out about 600w peak power, are they all illegal for use on public trails?
Also just be clear that they are in no way welcome or endorsed for use on public trails if the power is above the 250w/25kmh Australian Standard
Working for a land manager, the only way that we have endorsed the use of E Bikes on trails is that they must adhere to the Australian standard (which was adopted from Europe).
This standard allows these vehicles to be still defined as bicycles under the appropriate road traffic acts.

If it isn't legally defined as a bicycle, then it is a two wheeled vehicle with a motor aka a motorbike

A brief except from the information paper that I composed for endorsement...

What are E-Bikes?
An E-Bike (or Pedalec) is an electric motor-assisted bicycle.
The assistance from the motor allows riders to travel further for the same effort or to enable less fit or physically impaired riders to commute to or explore areas that they otherwise may not get to see.
Under the South Australian Road Traffic Act, E-Bikes which meet the European standard EN15194 are classified and policed exactly the same as regular bicycles.
There are a few key features to the standard:
  • The bike must employ a pedal assist system (no throttle).
  • The electric motor must not exceed 250w in transmitted power.
  • The electric pedal assist must cut out at 25kmh.
Can an E-Bike be ridden in our National Parks?
Yes. Because they are defined as bicycles, E-Bikes are allowed to use any track or trail which has been set aside for use by bicycles.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Ditto on the power laws too. Imo chinese mid drives watts are similar to chinese lumens. There is a discount factor. However that doesn't change the fact that they are rated for a certain power level and will be labelled as such. There is a lot of BS and fudging of power and peak power even from the reputable folks so good luck figuring that out.

But I will say, if you have an hour to ride, just ride shorter loop. Not sure what exactly you want to achieve because this will affect your ebike choice. The mid drives vary considerably in efficiency, power, gearing, proportional input and a whole bunch of other stuff.
 

gillyske

Likes Dirt
But I will say, if you have an hour to ride, just ride shorter loop. Not sure what exactly you want to achieve because this will affect your ebike choice. The mid drives vary considerably in efficiency, power, gearing, proportional input and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Essentially I just want it to assist me on the uphill fire roads. I wouldn't be using the assist on trails as I mainly just ride one directional gravity trails.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
from your experience, which ones are the good/efficient ones?
The tzsd mid drives (not bafang) are equally reliable and more efficient than the bafangs by a long shot. Because they are torque sensing the power is a lot more progressive and therefor the power consumption is a lot better than bafang. Between me and my mates I'd estimate about 25-30% more range. The also have very good gearing down low and not the 'kick-start' characteristics of the bafang. The drawbacks are that they generally come in lower power guise (re: legal haha) and no throttle if that is a problem. For commuting and a low power rider it's perfect, yu get on, ride and it doesn't feel unnatural, you just feel like you have strong legs. FI did find the top end lacking though once you go past 30kph due to gearing. .

The BBS02 is probably the most popular unit out there and solid as a rock. Goes up to 1000w and has a lot more steady power curve up top, albeit sacrificing the lower end progressive power (I nearly crashed first time I rode a 750W and it bucked me). Lower power units are a lot better simply because they are lower power but you still get that kick when the sensor decides to come on.

For commuting I'd recommend the TZSD for most applications. For MTB or any sort of more demanding riding where you stop start a lot less, the bafang BBS02.
 

SummitFever

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Sweet. I'll check out the tzsd. My wife is pretty fit so it would be good for her to just have a little bit of a power top up so I can get a good workout and she's not in the hurt box.
 

CHEWY

Eats Squid
I've had both Bafang and TSDZ.
I'd actually reccomend the TSDZ for emtb (torque sensor - feels very similar to a bosch etc) feels much more natural. I have the 250w 36v to keep it legal and find it has just the right amount of power (dont expect it to do all the work).
 

CHEWY

Eats Squid
Working for a land manager, the only way that we have endorsed the use of E Bikes on trails is that they must adhere to the Australian standard (which was adopted from Europe).
This standard allows these vehicles to be still defined as bicycles under the appropriate road traffic acts.

If it isn't legally defined as a bicycle, then it is a two wheeled vehicle with a motor aka a motorbike

A brief except from the information paper that I composed for endorsement...

What are E-Bikes?
An E-Bike (or Pedalec) is an electric motor-assisted bicycle.
The assistance from the motor allows riders to travel further for the same effort or to enable less fit or physically impaired riders to commute to or explore areas that they otherwise may not get to see.
Under the South Australian Road Traffic Act, E-Bikes which meet the European standard EN15194 are classified and policed exactly the same as regular bicycles.
There are a few key features to the standard:
  • The bike must employ a pedal assist system (no throttle).
  • The electric motor must not exceed 250w in transmitted power.
  • The electric pedal assist must cut out at 25kmh.
Can an E-Bike be ridden in our National Parks?
Yes. Because they are defined as bicycles, E-Bikes are allowed to use any track or trail which has been set aside for use by bicycles.
That standard states 250w max, yet all mainstream ebikes sold in shops i.e. levo etc put out about 600w peak.
 

Ackland

Likes Bikes and Dirt
That standard states 250w max, yet all mainstream ebikes sold in shops i.e. levo etc put out about 600w peak.
Correct but they have "passed certification" which is the best we can hope for.

If Australia adopts the additional power level standard that the EU has recently developed (primarily for cargo bikes and commuters but being exploited for off-road), it's going to become a shitstorm.
 

Ackland

Likes Bikes and Dirt
It's about that continuous peak power.

The levo has allowance for spikes but continuous has passed the certification
 

Ackland

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Rather than wiki I'd be going to the appropriate motor vehicles act.
Parks SA spent a significant amount of time checking legislation to ensure that allowing ebikes into reserves was permitted without specific management plan amendments (which take about a year).
I am still concerned about the yobbo crew who are derestricting their bikes (some shops are known to offer this as a service when purchasing).

There's enough vocal minority still upset about bikes in parks at all. It won't take much to push the balance back towards restricting cycling to a handful of reserves.
 

Ackland

Likes Bikes and Dirt
At the end of the day, if an ebike has been verified to pass EN15194, it's a bicycle under Australian Law.

Much like helmets with the Australian standards sticker. (Which can be $10 at a seven eleven)

Or vehicles with an ancap rating.

If the manufacturer has supplied a lab specimen that has passed at a registered facility, it's certified.

Bolt on kits have not passed EN15194 and in particular, often have a throttle
 
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