Big Wheels blowing out corners?

[GeurieMTB]

Hi all, didnt post this in the 29er thread as it deals with more than them (fat tyres too) and I wanted 26er riders to comment as well.

29ers and fatties are appearing out of the woodwork at my local trails and some of their riders are putting in big long multi lap rides regularly, Im noticing more and more that tight corners are being widened dramatically, is it my imagination or is it a trend others have noticed?

Quite a few of the new 29ers are being ridden by newbies or roadies crossing over, which is great but might also be contributing.....?

Pls dont get me wrong, Im not trying to bag out the bigger hoops, just wondering about something ive noticed recently


Thoughts?

 

[leftieant]

I don't think you could easily form a link between 29er bikes and corners blowing out. More likely the link is that trail traffic has increased and trails are not coping with the extra use.

29ers may have made MTBing more accessible for entry level riders, but 29er takeup has been across all skill levels, not just newbies.

 

[thecat]

Just the current trend. no body wants to take the time to learn how to corner properly.
Every body wants fast open corners, preferably bermed but if that's not there then it's so much easier to either strightline or if that's not possible push the entry and exit wider than it is to put on the brakes or lean the bike into a tight off camber....

 

[mtb101]

don't know what the official figures are but it's simply more bikes using more tracks, more often - with the added pressure of wet weather riding that accelerates wear.

 

[Refreshinglygood]

might have something to do with better trail building standards. I see trails being built to be more sustainable, I don't think there are that many 29ers out there, nor have there been significant numbers of them around for long enough to have had that kind of impact on trail design, however in the future they certainly might.

I'm thinking it's about IMBA standards for trail building being used.

 

[Stevob]

Some pics of the example would be great. So much depends on how it was built and what else is near or at the corner, eg trees, rocks etc.

 

[Antsonline]

Although all the commentary on this thread is that the 29er is really nothing to do with it, I ride both and know for certain that on the 29er I am on the edge of the corner, rather than riding 'within' the corner.
Stromlo, Buller, Glenorchy, and even MtJoyce this weekend - I was well aware of it racing behind 26" bikes.

I know nothing about IMBA standards, so dont want to go out on too far a limb, but would their corner standards not be designed for a shorter wheelbase, smaller wheeled bike?

 

[crank1979]

Just the current trend. no body wants to take the time to learn how to corner properly.
Every body wants fast open corners, preferably bermed but if that's not there then it's so much easier to either strightline or if that's not possible push the entry and exit wider than it is to put on the brakes or lean the bike into a tight off camber....

Exactly. IMBA standards aren't going to help if riders don't try to get their skills up to scratch and stay on the main trail corridor.

 

[0psi]

Exactly. IMBA standards aren't going to help if riders don't try to get their skills up to scratch and stay on the main trail corridor.

Interesting position to be in, on the one hand we want to grow our sport and make it less daunting and more accessible to the general public and by doing so we have a trail advocacy stumbling block.

 

[crank1979]

Interesting position to be in, on the one hand we want to grow our sport and make it less daunting and more accessible to the general public and by doing so we have a trail advocacy stumbling block.

I don't quite follow.

 

[Antsonline]

Exactly. IMBA standards aren't going to help if riders don't try to get their skills up to scratch and stay on the main trail corridor.

If one rider - of any skill level - rides a 26" bike, and then a 29" bike, their line in a corner is gonna be wider. It cant be as tight.
Skills are essential, but the physics of bigger wheels mean that it just cant be the same corning approach / technique.

 

[macboy]

number of riders and skills

I think it has to do with the number of riders as our sport grows, plus the skill level. I rode a 29er the other day for the first time and I feel that my lines were pretty much as usual. I reckon no matter what bike you're on if you're too hot into a corner you're going to wash out. We've all been there done that, especially when starting out. If people are coming out to ride a place for the first time they'll over cook things until they get used to it. At the Duael I got smoked by a few guys on 29ers taking perfect lines, I was on my 26. The contact patch with 29ers and big bag tyres is bigger, but I don't think enough to speed up trail wear.

I think it's a case of more riders, more wear.

 

[bunchie34]

If one rider - of any skill level - rides a 26" bike, and then a 29" bike, their line in a corner is gonna be wider. It cant be as tight.
Skills are essential, but the physics of bigger wheels mean that it just cant be the same corning approach / technique.

I can see what you're saying, but I can't agree with it. I'd imagine that the turning circle of a bike is less to do with the physics of big wheels and more to do with its wheelbase. The technique and approach are the same.

Skills are essential though, on that we can agree.

 

[crowash]

If one rider - of any skill level - rides a 26" bike, and then a 29" bike, their line in a corner is gonna be wider. It cant be as tight.
Skills are essential, but the physics of bigger wheels mean that it just cant be the same corning approach / technique.

Surely these physical principals would only apply (assuming they do) if you were going into the corner at full speed, something that as a relative noob at singletrack and a new 29er owner I'm unlikley to be doing.

I think the argument needs to be developed a bit more, is it inexperience or 29ers?...

Couldn't I equally argue that the larger contact patch means less pressure per square inch on the ground therefore less damage to the track? A bit of fuzzy logic both ways I reckon.

 

[crank1979]

If one rider - of any skill level - rides a 26" bike, and then a 29" bike, their line in a corner is gonna be wider. It cant be as tight.
Skills are essential, but the physics of bigger wheels mean that it just cant be the same corning approach / technique.

So do we modify tracks to be straighter and accomodate 29ers or is it more reasonable that 29er riders learn to control their bikes and stay on the track? The same for new mtbers. Riders are always going to misjudge lines every now and then but if it is enough traffic to change a line and the people that have built the track and/or maintain it don't think the change is acceptable is it the fault of the track or the riders that can't ride a line as it was intended to be ridden? I guess another option is to increase the choke points and corrals to force riders to stay on a particular line. I do believe there are times when lines need to be modified in the first few months from when they have been originally built depending on what lines the majority of riders are taking, but I don't believe established tracks should be changed to take the challenge away of riding corners at speed.

 

[Pizzaz]

I'd also heard that bigger wheels are a significant contributor to global warming due to the increased carbon footprint of the bigger wheels...

Sheesh...

Apparently people on mountain bikes of all shapes and sizes sometimes don't follow the tracks... I reckon we need to get a license system so that only people who have been approved get to ride on our trails... and only i they're riding the approved bikes with the approved wheels and...

Or we could just get back to riding our bikes... no matter what the wheel size?

 

[bunchie34]

I'd also heard that bigger wheels are a significant contributor to global warming due to the increased carbon footprint of the bigger wheels...

Sheesh...

Apparently people on mountain bikes of all shapes and sizes sometimes don't follow the tracks... I reckon we need to get a license system so that only people who have been approved get to ride on our trails... and only i they're riding the approved bikes with the approved wheels and...

Or we could just get back to riding our bikes... no matter what the wheel size?

Fuck that.

Let's continue to argue, it's what the internet is for. And I'm having a slow day.

 

[rone]

Fuck that.

Let's continue to argue, it's what the internet is for. And I'm having a slow day.

How I laughed.

 

[29er]

If one rider - of any skill level - rides a 26" bike, and then a 29" bike, their line in a corner is gonna be wider. It cant be as tight.
Skills are essential, but the physics of bigger wheels mean that it just cant be the same corning approach / technique.

What you've said sounds like bollocks to me. If you get a car and fit bigger rubber it still has the same turning circle. Wheels size doesnt determine the turning circle.

Wheelbase does. Maybe your trails are being ridden by longer bikes eg downhill bikes?

 

[Turner_rider]

So do we modify tracks to be straighter and accomodate 29ers or is it more reasonable that 29er riders learn to control their bikes and stay on the track? The same for new mtbers.

I seriously doubt that 29ers are the problem as many have already suggested. Disc brakes and suspension allowing greater speed probably results in more trail damage from a technology perspective than simple wheel size.

Anyway on my local trails where it was noticed riders have started cutting trails that have remained pretty much unchanged in 20 years we just put in a few large items such as massive rocks and fallen trees to "guide" people back onto the track as originally designed and to date the problem on those trails has gone away.