Boost hubs. Here to stay?

[pink poodle]

I didn't mate, last time I heard DH was 150mm... dont have much to do with DH at all. I just like watching it.

Problem is manufacturers of the bikes we ride, 100mm to 160mm covering XC to trail to AM making the frames to 157mm now, or stringing it out with people not even wanting 142mm bikes now as Boost 148 is hipster. Drip feeding hub standards over a few years and costing 3k a frame, 1k a fork and 1k+ a wheelset to get with the new standard.

Phew! I was worried you'd caught me out with a bit of fishing. I do agree with you about ever changing standards being a pain in the arse and wallet. One would almost assume the industry was struggling to find ways to make people buy more bikes.

BTW: buy yourself and the boys a big travel rig. Maybe not full blown dh, in the 160-200mm window. Plenty of old beaters around for nix. You'll not regret the fun factor they bring to your life, even if you're just tooling around.

If it was really about options and versatility and performance...things like 1.5 head tubes and thru axles would he the norm. Qr is for lazy people that value a few seconds over performance.

It's as if 26" wheels are no longer round and don't roll.

They don't. You are a dinosaur.

Mine spin and roll. They also wobble side to side.

 

[Calvin27]

people not even wanting 142mm bikes now as Boost 148 is hipster. Drip feeding hub standards over a few years and costing 3k a frame, 1k a fork and 1k+ a wheelset to get with the new standard.

The funny thing is 142 was at least reverse compatible. Now they are not even trying. The problem is not so much peopel choosing the standards, but that it's pretty hard not to. You go a mid to high end bike and it's got boost. No choice.

 

[ozzybmx]

Phew! I was worried you'd caught me out with a bit of fishing. I do agree with you about ever changing standards being a pain in the arse and wallet. One would almost assume the industry was struggling to find ways to make people buy more bikes.

BTW: buy yourself and the boys a big travel rig. Maybe not full blown dh, in the 160-200mm window. Plenty of old beaters around for nix. You'll not regret the fun factor they bring to your life, even if you're just tooling around.

Ney fishin' here...

They have enough bikes, MTB, BMX and Roadie each... our 17 bike stash is killing me on Stans, all apart from theirs and the missus roadie which get used twice a year max, just need to pump the tyres up on them.

 

[Beej1]

I see the Pivot Switchblade (29/275+) has a 157mm rear spacing.

I don't get the kerfuffle over the number of hub widths in existence. So long you can get at least one set of hubs to fit whatever spacing is present on whatever bike you own/desire, then I would've thought it doesn't really matter how many different sizes there are.

I've never really thought like the people who make these decisions are screwing us customers. It seems more like they're screwing the manufacturers who have to build parts adhering to the new decision in order to remain competitive.

 

[ozzybmx]

I've never really thought like the people who make these decisions are screwing us customers. It seems more like they're screwing the manufacturers who have to build parts adhering to the new decision in order to remain competitive.

When enough frame manufacturers jump on the new hub width, the hub manufacturers get on board. They are just making new cash the same as they did with the stale 142mm, new standards mean more $$$ to everyone. Resulting in the end consumer spending more...

It would be easy for me to switch parts from one bike to the next... but that doesnt happen anymore, BB rules out the crank, Bar diameter rules out the bars/stem, hub width buggers the wheels, fork rake... ect.

No big deal as I get on a happy place and stick with it, currently 11spd, 142mm wheels, 31.6 bars, 1.5" steerer.... changing any of it apart from the bar's costs a frame or wheelset.

I still have bikes on 1 1/4 steerer, 10spd, 25.4 bars and 135mm QR.

 

[Calvin27]

I don't get the kerfuffle over the number of hub widths in existence. So long you can get at least one set of hubs to fit whatever spacing is present on whatever bike you own/desire, then I would've thought it doesn't really matter how many different sizes there are.

Well that's the point. Imagine your wheel or hub goes bust. If everything is standardised you can cheaply or quickly. Stuff is cheap enough to buy a cheap second hand, low end model while your good one gets fixed, or you can quickly order parts with little waiting and at low cost. With more standards, the net benefit is retailers are reluctant to hold more stock of varying standards and it gets more expensive meaning they want to stock it even less, more chance of stock levels being low and lower chance of anyone having a spare. Happens with headsets, hubs, bottom brackets, everything. The reason why road stuff is so cheap is because the UCI actually standardises a lot of stuff, hub width being one. But even then they still play games with what they can.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

I don't get the kerfuffle over the number of hub widths in existence. So long you can get at least one set of hubs to fit whatever spacing is present on whatever bike you own/desire, then I would've thought it doesn't really matter how many different sizes there are.

I own multiple sets of wheels and multiple frames, I like to be able to swap my wheels out now and then. If I am doing a shuttle day I might stick my beater set of wheels on so I don't trash the nice ones. It's nice being able to do this, when they make a new standard that does nothing for performance, but enforces me to buy new wheels / hubs if I want a new frame, meh, no new frames unless its a Banshee, the interchangeable dropouts means I am not forced to the new standard.

I have no faith in marketing vs engineering in MTB.

 

[Beej1]

I own multiple sets of wheels and multiple frames, I like to be able to swap my wheels out now and then. If I am doing a shuttle day I might stick my beater set of wheels on so I don't trash the nice ones. It's nice being able to do this, when they make a new standard that does nothing for performance, but enforces me to buy new wheels / hubs if I want a new frame...

Fair enough. I guess I've never thought to have bikes I can switch stuff around on.

I just have 2 MTB's with no spare components, and either fluked or researched wisely and have never been without parts or access to parts due to standards, nor really broken anything severely, for longer than a few days. Nothing about either bike is interchangeable. If (scratch that ... when), I get another bike, I don't expect any parts on it to be exchangeable with the other two either. If the differing standards make it such that I have to wait for a part from CRC (or any number of places online that will surely have what I'm looking for), I'll just ride the other bike till it arrives.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

 

[pink poodle]

I've never really thought like the people who make these decisions are screwing us customers.

Try and get a straight steerer fork, 26 inch frame, and anything else old school.

I own multiple sets of wheels and multiple frames, I like to be able to swap my wheels out now and then. If I am doing a shuttle day I might stick my beater set of wheels on so I don't trash the nice ones. It's nice being able to do this, when they make a new standard that does nothing for performance, but enforces me to buy new wheels / hubs if I want a new frame, meh, no new frames unless its a Banshee, the interchangeable dropouts means I am not forced to the new standard.

I have no faith in marketing vs engineering in MTB.

Still waiting for the evidence to appear?

 

[Beej1]

Try and get a straight steerer fork, 26 inch frame, and anything else old school.

It feels like there's a fine line between 'evolution via advancement' and 'unecessary evolution of standards'.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the difference, but I'm OK with the fact that new parts for my old Nomad are going to be increasingly difficult to find. Maybe that's because new bike syndrome tends to win out for me.

P.S. I have a straight steerer 26in Lyrik Solo Air that's free to anyone who wants it. Caveat: it's 1.5in steerer, and I stripped it to replaint not knowing there is a finite amount of time before new paint must be applied else it doesn't stick to the oxidising magnesium. So it needs repainting properly. Finally ... it leaks oil because I couldn't find 1 x right sized o-ring for the damper.

But .... The dust seals are good

 

[pink poodle]

It feels like there's a fine line between 'evolution via advancement' and 'unecessary evolution of standards'.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the difference, but I'm OK with the fact that new parts for my old Nomad are going to be increasingly difficult to find. Maybe that's because new bike syndrome tends to win out for me.

P.S. I have a straight steerer 26in Lyrik Solo Air that's free to anyone who wants it. Caveat: it's 1.5in steerer, and I stripped it to replaint not knowing there is a finite amount of time before new paint must be applied else it doesn't stick to the oxidising magnesium. So it needs repainting properly. Finally ... it leaks oil because I couldn't find 1 x right sized o-ring for the damper.

But .... The dust seals are good

Shoot me a pm and I'll probably relieve you of this immense burden. If it is 170mm I'll definitely take it.

There's nothing wrong with evolving performance. I'm sure that 29ers are a great example of making something work better for something specific. It's the micro tune cutting off of things that work that is the issue. Fork thru axles are a good example.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Shoot me a pm and I'll probably relieve you of this immense burden. If it is 170mm I'll definitely take it.

There's nothing wrong with evolving performance. I'm sure that 29ers are a great example of making something work better for something specific. It's the micro tune cutting off of things that work that is the issue. Fork thru axles are a good example.

What makes it even worse is companies like sram putting a geo lock on their forks so you're forced to pay top dollar. When you've got a couple year old bike it's almost cheaper to buy a complete whole replacement bike than just a new fork.

 

[Calvin27]

Cross posted

Ex engineer leaks how marketing works in the bike industry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj0uBQ7j5c4&feature=youtu.be

 

[flamin'trek]

What makes it even worse is companies like sram putting a geo lock on their forks so you're forced to pay top dollar. When you've got a couple year old bike it's almost cheaper to buy a complete whole replacement bike than just a new fork.

This. New standards are fine, but when you don't buy a new bike every couple of years and like to maintain what you have it gets harder to replace stuff. Then when you finally decide its time for a new bike, you can end up with an experimental 'standard' which quickly ends up orphaned and even harder to get parts for.

It seems the biggest changes have occurred in the last few years, before press fit BB, and different axle/hub standards you could pretty much fit any bits to your ride.

 

[Beej1]

...It seems the biggest changes have occurred in the last few years, before press fit BB, and different axle/hub standards you could pretty much fit any bits to your ride.

But even then, aren't there adaptors to get around all the BB shell options? And adaptors for quite a few hubs?

Bought a Niner EMD9 from back from the US in 2011, got a cheap-shite Suntour Fork, and Hope Pro2 Hubs in Flows for 15mm front 135mm QR rear.

Fast forward a year and I hate the EMD9 as my hardtail option (too XC), and pick up a Diamondback Mason HT 29er from the US, and got one of the last 20mm thru axle 29er Revelation 140mm forks before they went to 15mm. Hope 20mm cups for front, 142 x 12 cups for rear. Done (still love the bike to this day).

Fast forward another 3 years and my aforementioned Lyrik fork on Nomad is fkd and flaking paint. Practically new Pike RCT3 26in pops up on Gumtree. Easton inform me via email they don't have any 15mm cups for 2010 Havoc front hubs any more, but Hope Pro2 adaptors apparently fit.

What do I have lying around from earlier 29er fork conversion? Hope Pro2 15mm cups.

 

[ozzybmx]

But even then, aren't there adaptors to get around all the BB shell options? And adaptors for quite a few hubs?

Hope 20mm cups for front, 142 x 12 cups for rear. Done (still love the bike to this day).

Hope is good like that, cheap as chips to swap out end caps, you dont want to try that with Chris King.

The 135mm to 142mm was easy, in effect, your QR caps had a 3.5mm 'spud' on each side which located into the dropout, they took away the 2 x 3.5mm spuds and added it to the axle = 142mm.

The boost 148 can't be spaced like that because of the rotor position, though i'm sure some have bodged 3mm either side then spaced their rear disc out.

 

[Paulie_AU]

I wonder how many upgrade sales they miss out on because of changes to rear hubs. I was thinking of a frame upgrade but boost rear will render 2 of my rear wheels useless or requiring 2 x boost hubs....... stuff that I will keep my money and ride what I got. Actually it is likely they sell more because of the change.

 

[hifiandmtb]

So no Boost conversion kit available for your hub(s)?


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[Gripo]

Having a frame upgrade a few months ago saw me having to "boost" adapt an i9 hub and have it re-dished....not a big drama but a $100 cost for no gain that I could feel back there you really do have to wonder why (guess no wondering, this is the cycling industry)...especially when a decade ago a bolt through 10x135 hubbed wheel was fine for me and I was riding DH too...

Now lets all rag on this METRIC shock bs....

 

[pink poodle]

especially when a decade ago a bolt through 10x135 hubbed wheel was fine for me and I was riding DH too...

You could feel the unease of it...and constantly needing to make sure it was tight. But...it was still fine for the job. Strange how far we have been trained. We? I mean you guys. I am way more epic now than I ever was in my 20s.