Brake Advice Needed

[William]

Hi, I have a 1999 900SX Raven, which I have started to get back into, love the bike but the original Coda brakes (170 mm) are scary, as you may know.

I am running original pads, does anyone have experience with the after market green, red or gold pads and are they worth changing to, or am I better off going straight to Shimano, and how would you rate Shimano mech, calipers with the original Coda`s, and will they work with 170 mm Coda rotors.

Thankyou, William.

 

[Matty14]

If you are talking bout the Red, Green and Gold EBC's... The Red are a softer compound therefore increasing braking power but apparently wear down quicker. The Golds are a sintered pad which work well in wet weather because they hold there heat. I am running them at the moment and they work fine. Under a lot of braking for a long time when not in wet weather, could warp your disc. The Green pads have a harder compound and are meant to last the longest. The only trouble is that they don't really work for shit and i wouldn't go near them. The lifespan between the reds and the greens are hardly noticable anyway.

Hope this helps
Matty

 

[William]

Brake Advice

Thank`s Matty I might give the reds a go until I can afford some new Shimano`s.

 

[MUGEN]

Oh I dunno Matty14..., the last time I heard, the golds are harder than the greens. But definatley, the reds are the softest and give you the most power.

 

[beno]

I might hold off on putting a higher performance pad into your coda's as-
The coda brakes on your bike are a closed system, whereas all hydraulic systems available today are an open system. This means that when you increase the stopping power (softer compound) or increase the life of your pads (harder pads with a higher metal content) you will increase the heat in your brake fluid. As a closed system your fluid has no where to go as it expands except outwards- locking your pistons against the rotors!!!!!
Thats one heavy back pack until the fluid cools!

In all other open systems the fluid will travel up to the mastercylinder where it will cool down, preventing this from happening. (well in good brakes anyway!)

This is a common problem with these brakes amongst a mirad of other problems. In short nearly any other disc brake will perform better than these buckets-sorry fella!

Shimano brakes will not run on a 170mm rotor, they require a 160mm as std, and adapters can be bought to use 180mm and 203mm rotors. The only brakes that i know of that use 170mm rotors are Naviagtor (6 piston and massive over kill on a xc bike!) and some Formula brakes (which aren't currently imported into the country)

Which leads to another problem! Most Cannondales of that era were fitted with 4 bolt hubs, when everyone else in the world uses 6 bolt international std hubs! rotors of these two types aren't interchangeable! Some 4 bolt rotors and 8 hole rotors (fits both 4 and 6 bolt hubs) are available from aftermarket brands such as A2Z and others in conventional sizes- 160mm, 180mm, 203mm etc

sorry if i have added to your list of problems! But at least now you know what you are up against.

beno.

 

[William]

Re: Beno

Thanks for the advice Beno,

It seems to be that if I want to run Shimano brakes without changing the 4 bolt hubs, ( That Shimano dont have a rotor that will fit the 4 bolt Coda hub ?)

That there are after market 160mm rotors that will fit the 4 bolt hub and allow me to run Shimano Calipers.

Q. Do you know if the original Coda levers will work with the Shimano calipers?

Q. Whats your advice on Shimano brake choice, I have to watch the dollars, but I appreciate good engineering.
Regards, William.

 

[udi]

Q. Do you know if the original Coda levers will work with the Shimano calipers?

Q. Whats your advice on Shimano brake choice, I have to watch the dollars, but I appreciate good engineering.

1. No they won't, sorry. If you are buying shimano brakes, you will need to run shimano callipers, hoses, levers, and genuine shimano mineral oil.

2. I have used and worked on pretty much every brake in the shimano lineup, and would highly reccomend the deore hydro's. They can be had very cheap, and with the right pads, will perform as well as any of the other brakes in the lineup. If you are open to using ebay, and want some good prices/links, shoot me a pm and i'll be happy to help.

As for finding 160mm rotors to suit the 4-bolt hubs, I have no idea, can't help you there. I think it'll be a difficult job at best, and you'll have to do a fair bit of hunting.

Your other option there is to get someone like Grip to make you a pair of custom adaptors to let you use them on the 170mm rotors. It's very much possible, and I think it would set you back roughly $120 for the pair from grip.

To correct beno's post a little, while full-sintered pads (such as ebc gold) will transfer more heat to the system than usual, and may cause problems with the closed system brake; organic pads won't have this effect - so a pad like the EBC red should be fine. So if you want to save yourself the hassle of new brakes just by a set of the red pads.

Just to clarify though (since you havent mentioned it..), are the brakes actually hydraulic, or mechanical? I'm quite sure Coda made both. If they are mechanical, then you can disregard ALL the comments made above on heat and fluid and locking up.

-Udi

 

[bradh]

4-bolt rotors are available. maybe beno can help?

 

[beno]

what they said^^^

I have to disagree with udi's disagree though! increasing stopping power with a softer pad will increase friction (which is what gives you more effective brakes) which in turn will increase heat ( a by product of friction) and possibly cook your fluid.

Also you can use other than shimano hose and fluid.

The fact remains however, that you have lasted this long on these brakes, not to mention the frame itself! (not many ravens have survived this long!) that this could all be a moot point, as you are either a super smooth style master, or a more cruisy rider! So your brakes may well survive with the red's, give em a try, at least in the front.

Deores are great, best bang for your buck brake out there at the moment, reliable, quailty manufacture, good selection of aftermarket pads etc. Armour/dice/diatech/fullbore are also a pretty good brake, but not as well made, or as reliable.

See the pic attached of A2Z 8hole rotors which will fit both 4 bolt and 6 bolt hubs. The 160mm size that i have in stock at the moment is in the shape of the SPII wave rotor though (if this seems like greek, look at the pic, then it will become clear!). you can order them from any bike shop in oz, err....well you may have to tell them who i am first!(hint: cycle solutions!). This will save you a shed load over getting new hubs lacwed into your wheels, and if and when you do in the future, you can still use the rotors. Should be around $70/80 ea.

Beno

 

[udi]

I have to disagree with udi's disagree though! increasing stopping power with a softer pad will increase friction (which is what gives you more effective brakes) which in turn will increase heat ( a by product of friction) and possibly cook your fluid.

But I think the "issue" that arises with sintered pads, is that because they are metal, they conduct the heat really well, and pass it on much more quickly through the pistons into the fluid.

The red pads are softer, and increase friction, but they are still 80-90% organic, and therefore while they will stop much harder (and likely generate a lot of rotor heat), they aren't going to be passing much of that into the calliper and fluid itself.

I think this is really a non-issue in this case like you said, since the bike isn't being thrown down worldcup DH tracks at 60kmh, but i'm still quite sure i'm right. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[beno]

lets just say we are both right. I'm sure S. will come along soon and explain it into the ground...........................................waiting.......................................................

Beno.