Brake suggestions.

[macboy]

I'm currently running Juicy 3.5's on my Scott Scale. Apparently the 3.5 model are the old Juicy 5 levers with Juicy 3 calipers.
Anyway, I'm pretty fed up with them. They fade quick, they catch/rub all the time, especially after hits for some reason, and are basically too soft for what I want. I've bled them, adjusted them and even thought about putting on my BB7's off my old giant.
Any suggestions or experience on what are the most suitable/best value/durable/performing etc etc for XC/Enduro work.
I realise this is a can of worms but they are really starting to shit me!!

 

[akashra]

I find that really wierd. I've never had an issue with fade on my Juicy 7s, and haven't heard the same kind of thing from others with 3s and 5s except then they're riding the brakes on long descents.

When was the last time you replaced the pads (or rotors?). If they're rubbing, then that will increase the heat produced. Are you using DOT4 or DOT5.1 fluid?

Something else which will affect how quickly brakes fade - how much do you weigh? (more weight = more inertia = more stopping power required = more heat produced)
How quickly are you seeing said brake fade?

If you really insist on changing, I've been happy with XT brakes. There's some things I think could be improved on, but they're consistent so you get used to those issues.

 

[macboy]

How long do pads usually last? I've done about 2000km on the original set, not wanted to sound like a nuffy but I'm not overly experienced with disc brakes.

 

[ScottyMac]

Probably worth checking the pads, I probably go through a set on the back around every 2000km. And some of that is riding road so its very possible that they are worn out. I had juicy three, fives and sevens and they all seemed good! Obviously sevens were best but three certainy were powerfull enough!

 

[macboy]

cool, I'll look into new pads then.
Also I think I'll get some 5.1 fluid.

 

[akashra]

It also seriously depends on the pad compound and riding conditions. Organic pads in the wet you might be lucky to get 40km out of.
Just take them out and physically have a look at them. If they're glazed or below about 40% meat on the pad at any point, replace them.

Blacks (Organic) will handle more heat have less fade, Gold will last longer in pad life and are a harder metallic compound. Avid also provide a Red compound which is kinda in between, and other third-party manufacturers have some additional compounds available.

 

[macboy]

cheers,
I'll drop by my lbs this week.

 

[k3n!f]

Blacks (Organic) will handle more heat have less fade, Gold will last longer in pad life and are a harder metallic compound. Avid also provide a Red compound which is kinda in between, and other third-party manufacturers have some additional compounds available.

I found this interesting article about motor racing brakes that seems to also apply quite well to mountain bikes. I think they hit the nail on the head saying that organic pads work better at lower temperatures, but the coefficient of friction drops off rapidly at higher temperatures causing pad fade on long descents.

Sintered metal pads on the other hand, are noisier, wear the disc more but the added metal means they cope with higher temperatures before their coefficient of friction starts to drop away.

This seems to be the case with my Avid brakes, the organics might feel better riding around in the car park before the ride, but the sintered pads are much better at preventing pad fade on long descents.

http://www.se-r.net/car_info/brake_performance.html

With regard to your original post macboy, I think you should try changing the brake pads before you ditch the Juicy's. They are not known for their modulation or firm lever feel, but they are generally considered to be quite a powerful brake. Consider trying some of the sintered pads before you throw them in the bin.

If you are going to replace them then the new Shimano XT brakes seem to get glowing reviews for their power and modulation as well as having Shimano reliability. Avid's new Elixir line is also getting some pretty solid review if you want to stick with Avid. If your looking to spend more than that then Formula brakes seem to set the benchmark at the moment with their Oro brakes.

 

[gixer7]

I suffered the same problems on my Juicy 5's. Excessive heat build up - even on fast downhill runs like the Oaks where you don't use brakes they were still getting fried.

I put braided lines and the brakes have been fade free and powerful ever since. They do however have other problems like some bad resonance in the rear which creates the world famous Avid Juicy Turkey Warble - massive thread on it over at mtbr.com.

I've also found my Juicy's are prone to sticky pistons - you need to relube and unstick the pistons regularly. This might be the cause of some of your problems.

I have a set of M770 XT brakes on my Trance Advanced and they really are an amazing brake. Powerful, quiet and awesome modulation. If you were going to switch I would definitely recommend these.

 

[Slowman]

I've got Juicy 7s and they are good and never experienced fade but you know I reckon my BB7s are every bit as good and pull me up just as quick and in some ways have a more positive feel at the lever.

The most powerful brake I ever had a was a 7" Armour (I had to consciously take care to stop going over the bars) probably one of the cheapest and next after that was plane old Deore hydros. Pads of course will make a difference but I've never noticed fade even with organic pads.

 

[macboy]

With regard to your original post macboy, I think you should try changing the brake pads before you ditch the Juicy's. They are not known for their modulation or firm lever feel, but they are generally considered to be quite a powerful brake. Consider trying some of the sintered pads before you throw them in the bin.

Cheers for the tip about firmness. If I know they aren't known for a firm lever then I'll stop chasing that.
The pistons do get sticky, especially the back. Any known reasons for this, build up of crap maybe?
Another thing I find is that everything is going sweet, then I'll go through a rough section and for the next little bit they squeal or rub like a bastard until I've used or pumped them a few times, it's the back mainly. Thoughts?

Whilst I've been looking at other brakes, does anyone have experience or comments on the Shimano XT dual action brake/gear levers? I like the idea of less things hanging off my bars.

 

[gixer7]

Whilst I've been looking at other brakes, does anyone have experience or comments on the Shimano XT dual action brake/gear levers? I like the idea of less things hanging off my bars.

Dual controls are either love em or hate em. Definitely try them out before you buy.

I personally don't think much of them - they work fine but I much prefer a regular setup. They also require a different (rapid rise) rear mech.

 

[macboy]

They also require a different (rapid rise) rear mech.

Ahh, well scratch that idea then.

 

[macboy]

Problem solved.

Thanks everyone for your advice, new pads, bleed, clean pistons and adjusted lever grub screw and brakes are as good as new.

 

[ScooterXC]

hahaha XTRs work briliant

 

[r.ayres1]

Brake Woes

I purchased (About 9 Months ago) Avid Elixir CR Brakes out of the box, bolted straight on, haven't touched them since. Lightweight, Quite powerful (For XC, Enduro - I wouldn't use them on a downhill bike), I recommend them.