Bying Bike Online from USA

[4xsama]

Seeing the Aussie $ is pretty good at the moment would getting a bike online from the US be good value.

If so, any reccomended sites.

Cheers

 

[hiredassassin]

It's mighty tempting right now - prices are much cheaper in the US and yesh - aussie $$ is very strong...

BUT..

Buying a frame or bike or complete bike from overseas can leave you with no warranty and no support. Most warrantees are only valid for the country of purchase and not transferrable and generally your local distributor will not help you (why would they - they get nothing for it and it costs them money to help you out).

I'm only saying this as I had a recent experience with this, which while it ended pretty well (I got a new frame ), it was far too much hardwork and heartache and still cost me extra money than what it would have had I bought locally in the first place.

so just saying - be careful.

that said... jenson USA have some amazing frame prices as do speedgoatcycles.com (and they're also an extremely helpful bunch of guys).

 

[tumble_downs]

I haven't bought a complete bike or frame locally for years (I know all the LBS owners out there will hate me). Yes, you will have a problem if there's a warranty issue, but I've never broken a frame yet. I can recommend Jenson, Chain Reaction Cycles (UK), Wiggle (UK), and Evans (UK) for complete bikes, as they have the best postage rates. You will need to find a real bargain to make it worthwhile, as it will cost around $200 to post. If you're willing to build a bike up from a frame, there's real bargains to be found on Ebay and at other stores - I just bought a new carbon cyclocross frame & fork for $360 including delivery!

 

[Binaural]

Be careful who you use in the USA - pretty uneven quality. Greenfish are good. But definitely price them up against the UK shops like chainreactioncycles.com and wiggle.com as they are often still cheaper.

 

[C Dunlop]

If you get anything worthwhile it will be over $1000. Add 15% for gst and import duty. Add ~$200-300 for shipping. Subtract warranty support.

Also, from the sounds of things, you have very little idea of what you are after, and even what size you need (I am on a 54 in some brands and a 56 in others, stuff this up and you'll be pretty miserable on the bike).

Many locally sourced bikes have come down in price by ~30% this year.

Most brands have a worldwide warranty programme. If there is a local distro then they'll help you out, but you'll be charged handling and freight fees, as well as for the processing. This can add up to around about $800 if you have a problem.

You'll get more help from an LBS. I struggle to see why people who spend a good portion of their expendable income on riding don't develop a relationship with a good local LBS. They get to know you, you get to know them. Repeat customers never pay retail, ever. If you ever get something fixed/parts fitted from online, I guarantee that you're getting reamed on labour by your shop.

For example, I've been away racing in a fairly remote part of the country and munched a rear mech, destroyed the hanger, which was my last spare. One phone call in the morning to the shop where I got the bike and it was sorted. They overnighted me a hanger, a mech, a cable and chain. I missed half a day of riding. Try that with a no-name bike or something that you got on the internet: chances are you'll be met with a shrug and your trip will be over.

Your money though.

 

[Binaural]

Some of your points are true, but some are on the verge of scare-mongering. For balance:

1. Local support for products is often (usually) rubbish. It should not be a large factor in your decision. Most local importers will simply say that any unusual wear or damage is due to you flogging or crashing it (i.e. perfectly normal mountain biking use), and short of going to arbitration you don't have any recourse. I've had to call on warranty repairs twice for Australian-purchased stuff, and was rebuffed both times for the same reason. Many of my riding mates have had similar experiences, one had to spend 6 months trying to prise a replacement frame out of the supplier after cracks appeared in the first year of its life.

2. Admittedly he will probably have to pay GST on a overseas bike, but then again he will definitely pay GST on a local item. Import duty is charged at 5% of the nominal value, so for a $2k AUD bike he would pay $100, i.e. 1/2 to 1/3 of what you suggest. That said, purchasing overseas tends to work better for components, where with a bit of care you are at little risk of buying the wrong size and no duty applies at all in most cases. Most bike shops won't be keen for you to return a bike you've specially ordered in your normal size that turns out a little too small, either.

3. Cut-price for most bikeshops is still often 30-40+% more than what you pay overseas, so your argument does not really hold up economically. I've made plenty of friends at bikeshops over the years when I've needed to replace stuff I've smashed and need replaced short-term, but

4. Bike shops are helpful. Learning to install and maintain your own stuff is more useful still, and buying your own stuff and fitting it is one of the best ways of all.

 

[tumble_downs]

My experience is that no gst or duties were paid on overseas bikes over $1000 because either the price was listed as less than the full amount, or it was sent via Fedex or other courier. If you have a look at the Jenson site for instance, there's a mention about door to door delivery - circumventing customs. This sort of stuff makes Gerry Harvey very angry, because apparently the whole nation will disintegrate unless we pay full retail. It doesn't explaing why he continues to make more money, shopping centres continue to expand, and why there seem to be around twice the number of bike shops in inner Melbourne now than there were 10 years ago.

I'm comfortable without a local warranty, and I'm happy to work on my own bike, so I pay up to 50% less than local retail for bikes, frames & parts. It comes down to that.

 

[struggles]

I buy plenty of bike parts and stuff online from overseas but I have not yet bought a bike.

I just did a lot of research and nearly bought one but found I could buy a bike locally for only about $200 more.

 

[C Dunlop]

1. Local support for products is often (usually) rubbish. It should not be a large factor in your decision. Most local importers will simply say that any unusual wear or damage is due to you flogging or crashing it (i.e. perfectly normal mountain biking use), and short of going to arbitration you don't have any recourse. I've had to call on warranty repairs twice for Australian-purchased stuff, and was rebuffed both times for the same reason. Many of my riding mates have had similar experiences, one had to spend 6 months trying to prise a replacement frame out of the supplier after cracks appeared in the first year of its life.

Funny that these stories are so vague and always involve 'several mates'. Most large bike stores have a person solely dedicated to warranty issues.

2. Admittedly he will probably have to pay GST on a overseas bike, but then again he will definitely pay GST on a local item. Import duty is charged at 5% of the nominal value, so for a $2k AUD bike he would pay $100, i.e. 1/2 to 1/3 of what you suggest. That said, purchasing overseas tends to work better for components, where with a bit of care you are at little risk of buying the wrong size and no duty applies at all in most cases. Most bike shops won't be keen for you to return a bike you've specially ordered in your normal size that turns out a little too small, either.

My point was the GST is not included in the listed price from an international store, when it is built into the price of a locally sourced frame. One might think one is saving (for example) $1000 on a $4000 bike. Factor in the 10% GST ($400), and the 5% customs ( (4400*0.05= 220) as well as shipping (say $200) and that starts to look substantially less.

3. Cut-price for most bikeshops is still often 30-40+% more than what you pay overseas, so your argument does not really hold up economically. I've made plenty of friends at bikeshops over the years when I've needed to replace stuff I've smashed and need replaced short-term, but

It isn't cheap keeping an inventory of, what amounts to around 3000 spare parts (road, MTB, campag, shimano, sram, books of proprietary spokes, parts and accessories) After 2001 campy record RD? I can get you one, CRC/wiggle cannot. $5 part to keep your $500 hydro brakes going? not worth CRC's while, LBS will do it because they like to keep people riding and their reputation is built on service, not just a race to the bottom.

4. Bike shops are helpful. Learning to install and maintain your own stuff is more useful still, and buying your own stuff and fitting it is one of the best ways of all.

when you fuck it up, who you gonna call? when you need a small part today? good advice from people whose job it is to give it? actual technical expertise rather than the BS that gets sprouted on online forums?

 

[Binaural]

Funny that these stories are so vague and always involve 'several mates'. Most large bike stores have a person solely dedicated to warranty issues.

Really? Those guys must sell terrible products - a typical big bike store might have about 3-4 people on the floor at any time, and suggesting 25% of the workforce does nothing but warranty does not ring true. If you really want detail, the "mate" example was my friend Gav, returning a Giant DH frame with a cracked subframe weld, bought new complete through legitimate channels. Authentic enough? My own experiences are with Giant (local frame buckling) and Raceline (cracking). Neither had a happy outcome.

My point was the GST is not included in the listed price from an international store, when it is built into the price of a locally sourced frame. One might think one is saving (for example) $1000 on a $4000 bike. Factor in the 10% GST ($400), and the 5% customs ( (4400*0.05= 220) as well as shipping (say $200) and that starts to look substantially less.

Hence my point about purchasing components - I should have mentioned that this was because keeping the price below 1k means you pay neither duty nor GST. Your example, in reverse, illustrates this nicely.

It isn't cheap keeping an inventory of, what amounts to around 3000 spare parts (road, MTB, campag, shimano, sram, books of proprietary spokes, parts and accessories) After 2001 campy record RD? I can get you one, CRC/wiggle cannot. $5 part to keep your $500 hydro brakes going? not worth CRC's while, LBS will do it because they like to keep people riding and their reputation is built on service, not just a race to the bottom.

Which is why most shops tend to have pretty limited spares and order most things in anyway if you need something out of the ordinary. And have you seen the spare catalogue at CRC - it's pretty awesome. If you can't find your 4 buck part, it's your own damn fault (speaking in the abstract!).

when you fuck it up, who you gonna call? when you need a small part today? good advice from people whose job it is to give it? actual technical expertise rather than the BS that gets sprouted on online forums?

This is a legitimate reason to use bike shops - repair, tune and replace is their core stuff. Plenty of people don't have the time or are not good at mechanical stuff, not to mention the great unwashed who don't want to service their bikes because it's greasy. But in the same way you rarely buy performance parts from the guy who gives your car its annual service, it's hard to say that the retail and service functions can't fruitfully be separated for the upper ends of the market, which given the inability of the Australian bike shops to get costs down seems the way it's heading. The fact Aussie shops cannot compete with a UK shop (in a country with a higher cost of labour and located on the other side of the world) is frankly amazing.

 

[notso]

Completely off point... but... I race DH, train on an xc bike and have an SS to get to work.
As such I have never ventured into the forums of the road fraternity.

I have to say that the arguments given by this sub sector of the bike community are a great read and there's a significant lack of "you're a ...." and the like.
Probably indicative of the age of said sub sectors.

I'm glad I opened this thread. It gave me a good laugh. Cheers

 

[ilostmypassword]

As stated its a risk. But with prices this good....eff it. Take the risk! Just make sure you get it from a good store that has warranties

Have fun!!

 

[m_g]

hey C Dunlop,

Some good points...A little off topic, but on the point of LBS relationships...I have run out of bike stores to frequent in my area due to bad customer service, bad mechanical service, slow service and just outright lying...I suspect you (and others) probably get looked after as you may be a sponsored/top end racer type...For the average pleb like me, I've had very bad experiences...Therefore, I would have no hesitation buying a bike online with no warranty/customer service...I'm easy on my gear and service it regularly myself...Haven't had any major dramas (fingers crossed)..But this is personal preference

Also, on the issue of customs duty...I have heard that if duty is payable, they don't actually collect unless the duty amount is over $250 (that's what I was told on my last import, but that was a year or two ago). If duty is 5% for bikes, that means you can get a bike for $5000 before you pay it (you're still up for GST though)...Correct me if I'm wrong

out

 

[anth69]

It isn't cheap keeping an inventory of, what amounts to around 3000 spare parts (road, MTB, campag, shimano, sram, books of proprietary spokes, parts and accessories) After 2001 campy record RD? I can get you one, CRC/wiggle cannot. $5 part to keep your $500 hydro brakes going? not worth CRC's while, LBS will do it because they like to keep people riding and their reputation is built on service, not just a race to the bottom.

when you fuck it up, who you gonna call? when you need a small part today? good advice from people whose job it is to give it? actual technical expertise rather than the BS that gets sprouted on online forums?

here's my example , i built an XC bike with parts from online AND LBShops , mainly because i wanted a particular build spec , the bike is all new and cost half of what that same model cost on the floor at LBS last year , I'm chasing a small clip for the frame and most bike shops arent interested in supplying a part for a bike that cost $9k on thier floor a year ago , one shop in vermont even commented that had i bought the bike from him and been a regular customer i might have seen more co-operation from him ( he was too stupid to realise i liked a road bike on his floor and was ready to swipe the card ) further to this , what do LBS charge for labour ? $80 / 90 p/hr ? what qualification of skills do you get for this rate ? are the mechanics qualified ? or do you just get a young guy that has fixed his own bike that much that he knows how to get by with a set of allen keys ? if you compare LBS dirt bike parts/accessories to similar bicycle parts they ( bicycle parts ) are ludicrusly overpriced , there's only so much of a premium i'll pay for so called 'service' , thankfully the web has opened up some transperancy ...its called competiton for sales

 

[Registered Nutcase]

My experience is that no gst or duties were paid on overseas bikes over $1000 because either the price was listed as less than the full amount, or it was sent via Fedex or other courier. If you have a look at the Jenson site for instance, there's a mention about door to door delivery - circumventing customs. This sort of stuff makes Gerry Harvey very angry, because apparently the whole nation will disintegrate unless we pay full retail. It doesn't explaing why he continues to make more money, shopping centres continue to expand, and why there seem to be around twice the number of bike shops in inner Melbourne now than there were 10 years ago.

I'm comfortable without a local warranty, and I'm happy to work on my own bike, so I pay up to 50% less than local retail for bikes, frames & parts. It comes down to that.

You are totally wrong in regards to shipping. EVERYTHING goes through customs and AQIS before it is let into the company. ask anyone who works at airports or the docks, you CAN NOT circumvent customs, and Door to Door just means it will be delivered you dont have to go pick it up from a depo.

hey C Dunlop,

Some good points...A little off topic, but on the point of LBS relationships...I have run out of bike stores to frequent in my area due to bad customer service, bad mechanical service, slow service and just outright lying...I suspect you (and others) probably get looked after as you may be a sponsored/top end racer type...For the average pleb like me, I've had very bad experiences...Therefore, I would have no hesitation buying a bike online with no warranty/customer service...I'm easy on my gear and service it regularly myself...Haven't had any major dramas (fingers crossed)..But this is personal preference

I could not agree more. Having been to many, many different LBS in my time, they all seem to fall down in the same areas.

They are expensive(this I could deal with if the service was good)

You are treated like a novice (for example I went in asking for 2 stainless steel brake cables, and he tried selling me a 150 brake and shifter cables).

They strait out lie to you face

The substandard mechanical work, and if you have a technical question they dont like helping you out, even motor mechanics will explain something to you.

They are picky about the work they do for you money(for example you ask for a really odd part and they tell you it dosnt exist when you are holding one in your hand and that they are not intrestered in helping you out)

I have tried to give them a go but when I get treated like an idiot they can go shove it where the sun dosnt shine. I will never have issues with buying OS because of this substandard treatment.

 

[Pebble]

You are totally wrong in regards to shipping. EVERYTHING goes through customs and AQIS before it is let into the company. ask anyone who works at airports or the docks, you CAN NOT circumvent customs, and Door to Door just means it will be delivered you dont have to go pick it up from a depo.



I could not agree more. Having been to many, many different LBS in my time, they all seem to fall down in the same areas.

They are expensive(this I could deal with if the service was good)

You are treated like a novice (for example I went in asking for 2 stainless steel brake cables, and he tried selling me a 150 brake and shifter cables).

They strait out lie to you face

The substandard mechanical work, and if you have a technical question they dont like helping you out, even motor mechanics will explain something to you.

They are picky about the work they do for you money(for example you ask for a really odd part and they tell you it dosnt exist when you are holding one in your hand and that they are not intrestered in helping you out)

I have tried to give them a go but when I get treated like an idiot they can go shove it where the sun dosnt shine. I will never have issues with buying OS because of this substandard treatment.

But on the flip side if the mechanic in the bike shop was someone like you, familiar with top end gear, and they were fully quialified in their field, imagine how all the Huffy riders would feel when they're told that their crank arms will cost them more than the bike

 

[C Dunlop]

In defence of the LBS...

Saying they're all crap is a bit like saying all resturants are unhygenic. Having worked in a lot of resturants and bike shops, I can say that there is a grain of truth to both assertions, but in fact most places do a really good job.

Rates for mechanical services run are $60/hr at the place I currently work at. Pretty reasonable considering a good (skilled) mechanic earns roughly $30/hr. Add super, workcover, rent, tools and workshop expendables that dont have an additional charge (grease, rags, degreaser, etc.) and the boss is making SFA from that. Plenty of work is done for free, particularly on nicer bikes and on more complicated jobs. A basic service ($60) ususally takes less than an hour, which is why interesting work is done cheaply or for free, but if you can't clean your bike and lube your chain and cables (which is what 99% of basic services consist of) then you probably aren't too concerned with that.

3 of our mechanics have been at the shop for ~8-10 years. One is a qualified motor mechanic, another does some seriously mind-boggling stuff - for example, last week he made a rear mech hanger from scratch for an overseas rider who was in town to race for the week and who didn't have a spare hanger. Hangers for their brand of bike were unavailable locally. 2 of our mechanics are younger, both "DH kids" but both really good. One of them built my touring bike, which I will take riding overseas, in isolated areas, for a year. If I didn't trust them 100% then I would have paid full price to have it done elsewhere. Everyone learns. Nothing leaves the workshop that isn't done to the highest possible standard. Nearly everyone could be earning more money in lines of work they are less passionate about, myself included. I have a Masters Degree and speak a second and third language.

LBS staff cop a bad wrap online. When people come in with a tech question, they normally do so because they have searched to internet to death, and still have no idea. They've also normally botched a job themselves and want the LBS to pick up the pieces - they normally expect this to be cheap and easy. Most people that work in bike shops do it because they love to ride, however, most of our time is spent answering questions about ~$600 hybrids that, quite frankly, nobody gives a damn about. The good deal of customers get stoppy, often to the point of anger when they ask if one kids bike is better than the other, and the answer is "they're pretty much the same". They then ask for discount on products (like kid's bikes) that we don't make any money on anyway. When the answer is 'no' they get indignant. It isn't our fault that campy changed their cassette spline and that, after 8 years you need a new groupset.

When someone comes in, with a component that was made before I was born, wanting a random bearing, o-ring or seal (or whatever) that has to be special ordered and costs $2, of course I am going to have to look up information and get back to them. We can't know everything about everything. Most people who come in wanting small parts (which we can't stock all of, and which online stores don't even sell) are basically keyboard warriors who know everything about one thing. Unfortunately we have to deal with questions about everything from high end electronic groupsets to different types of loctite to our deepest opinions on kid's helmets. With the profusion of the internet, everyone seems to think themselves an expert. This week I was asked my technical opinion about the campy electronic groupset - never mind that it is still in prototype stage, and only campag engineers and team movistar mechanics have seen it!

I spent an over an hour today talking to a customer who's pedal force (ie, POS online frame) was creaking. He wanted everything short of a rub-n-tug from us. We saved him hundreds of dollars of buying crap from the internet that wouldn't stop his frame creaking. A new set of speedplay cleats fixed all his problems: total profit from sales: $19, cost of my time serving him: about $40. Amount of time we saved him pulling his bike to pieces: ~10 hours+. Amount we saved him in part from the internet chasing down mystery creaks: atleast $200. His comment: "these cleats are cheaper online, can I have any discount?". Unfortunately, like there are bad shops, there are bad customers, and bad people.

I am more than happy to pay for my hobbies and have never asked for discount. I regularly buy things from shops other than the one where I work becuase they are good at what they do. I am happy to pay skilled labour rates for skilled labour. That said, we all like the jobs we do, and could all earn more working in other industries. I've never been a sponsored rider. I get staff discount just as pretty much everyone gets from their respective workplace. It just so happens that my work and one of my hobbies intersect one and other.

I could go on all day, but the basic gist of it is that there are good bike shops and bad, just as there is with everything. Finding a goodie is worth its weight in gold, and using them regularly will save you both time and money. Find a good shop, be a good customer: it really is a win-win relationship.

 

[tumble_downs]

You are totally wrong in regards to shipping. EVERYTHING goes through customs and AQIS before it is let into the company. ask anyone who works at airports or the docks, you CAN NOT circumvent customs, and Door to Door just means it will be delivered you dont have to go pick it up from a depo.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what Jenson's saying, but this is what you get at checkout if you try to buy a complete Intense 29er ($4500!)

To your doorstep price ->
You will not be responsible for brokerage, duties, or taxes upon delivery.


My 1st 29er was a complete $1200 Jamis from Jenson, and I paid no gst or duties.

 

[Binaural]

C Dunlop: I don't think anyone could argue that people who run or work in bike shops are universally rubbish. But it's telling that all your examples of why bike shops are great are are with respect to anomalies - i.e. stupid people or really rare parts. Is that really representative of why 90% of us visit a bike stop?

Your comments on what you charge for are interesting. Reading between the lines, I wonder if many bike shops run their parts sale business at somewhat inflated prices to cover for running repair services at overly tight margins.

Also, while it might be unpopular here, I would challenge the idea of bike shop mechanics are skilled labour in anything other than a trivial sense - last I checked no special education or apprenticeship etc is required nor any sort of qualification that might give the customer confidence that quality work will be done. Individuals may be skilled, but as a category it is unskilled labour.

 

[C Dunlop]

C Dunlop: I don't think anyone could argue that people who run or work in bike shops are universally rubbish. But it's telling that all your examples of why bike shops are great are are with respect to anomalies - i.e. stupid people or really rare parts. Is that really representative of why 90% of us visit a bike stop?

Yes, unless they are buying a new bike or accessories, most people go to shops because they need something done, or advice on how to do something that they can't do themselves. For some this is as simple as how to lube a chain, for others it is the parts needed to rebuild ergolevers.

Your comments on what you charge for are interesting. Reading between the lines, I wonder if many bike shops run their parts sale business at somewhat inflated prices to cover for running repair services at overly tight margins.

Your reading between the lines is wrong. All parts of all the bike shops I have worked at run at lean margins, with the exception of low end bikes. I've managed other types of retail stores, and the margins in kitchenware and fashion are 300-500% more than in bikes. Nobody is getting rich in the bike trade.

Also, while it might be unpopular here, I would challenge the idea of bike shop mechanics are skilled labour in anything other than a trivial sense - last I checked no special education or apprenticeship etc is required nor any sort of qualification that might give the customer confidence that quality work will be done. Individuals may be skilled, but as a category it is unskilled labour.

I have a certificate 1 in food hygene from when I worked at Mcdonalds for a month when I was 16. I guess that makes me skilled.