Carbon HT vs Aluminium Dual? Your experience?

Turley

Likes Bikes and Dirt
After having my old 26" DS stolen, I am now on the search for a new MTB.

I'm going to progress to a 29" wheel, but I'm undecided on whether I will go for a carbon HT or aluminium DS.

My background is from DH racing, so I have found in the few enduro's I have raced that I am often "stuck" behind slower riders on the downhills, which makes me think a carbon HT may be the better option. But I also enjoy the flowing trails which my old DS was perfect for. I know the best solution is one of each, but that isn't happening.

So, what is your experience with these two types of bikes? And what do you prefer/recommend.

Thanks

Turley
 

jathanas

Likes Bikes and Dirt
A HT is still a HT, 29er or not. The dually will be kinder to your arse and back, but it will have a longer wheelbase so it wont turn as quickly. The dually wont climb as fast as a HT either.

I prefer HT in the 29er platform, and dually in the 26". That's just me of course, YMMV.

Cheers, J
 

C Dunlop

Likes Dirt
If you have a DH background I would recommend against 29in wheels.

29in duallies are friggen heavy bikes (even the carbon ones, even the blinged out ones) This will hinder you even more on the climbing.

It depends on where you do most of your riding, but I reckon a 26in wheeled 5in duallie with fairly xc-oriented angles would be a good choice for you, considering your background and your focus on enduros.
 

krisko

Likes Dirt
C Dunlop
If you have a DH background I would recommend against 29in wheels.

29in duallies are friggen heavy bikes (even the carbon ones, even the blinged out ones) This will hinder you even more on the climbing.

It depends on where you do most of your riding, but I reckon a 26in wheeled 5in duallie with fairly xc-oriented angles would be a good choice for you, considering your background and your focus on enduros.
Wow! Tell that to the Czech rider who recently came first at the Worlds! Im not going into the mine is better then yours thingo but weight doesn't make you fast or slow!
Ride both preferably demo both at the same location back to back, any bike shop worth it's salt will organise this for you. This way you can make the decision for yourself.

I know I can't do more than 3 hours on a HT in a row on singletrack due to an aching back, many people do 24hr solos on a HT, so obviously this will guide answers you receive from others.
As for the 26 v 29 bike thing, the same thing goes!
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
it sounds like you're thinking less pure downhill more xc/dh or 'all mountain' type riding. if that's the case then go 29er FS 100mm. The large wheels do give you an edge in rough terrain and a sub 12kg bike can be had for around $3000.00.
 

Turley

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I should clarify. My background is DH, but I haven't ridden DH for a couple of years now due to university study. My current riding consists of commuting on the road bike, bmx racing and riding XC trails on the weekends. The bike that was stolen was my Ironhorse hollowpoint (4 inch travel), which I rode in everything from enduros to 4x racing. This bike should be being replaced by insurance.

I am looking for a bike with enduro racing in mind, but will also be fun for whizzing around the trails with mates. Both a carbon HT and a short travel aluminium DS are in the same price bracket, hence my question seeking opinions. I am still young (25.. I hope that is still young), so a HT is a realistic option still.

Turley
 

adaib

Likes Dirt
I can ride a carbon hardtail in 6 and 8 hour solo enduros, no probs. Just need to maintain a strong core.
I'm 19, and i wouldn't even cosider a duallie, but I know plenty of 25 yr olds who are in the same mind
 

C Dunlop

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to clarify...

if you've ridden competitive DH and race BMX, we can assume that you have a modicum of bike handling skills. This is why I suggest 26in wheels would suit you better. Try to ride a 29in bike, both on a smooth-ish, flowy trail (where they are great), and on a techy trail with off-camber corners, step-ups and tight, uphill switchbacks (where 29ers are friggen horrible).

I rode 29in bikes for 3 years, mostly on the east coast. I had three. Only one of these handled nicely. All were popular bikes. Canberra is flowy (read: easy, some might say "boring" or "gumby friendly") and 29ers are really well suited, which is why everyone has them. Same goes for some, but not all east coast endurance race courses. It's easy riding, it's open, flowy trail. 29ers can be quite nice.

I moved to Adelaide, the trails are much narrower and not manicured at all, the climbs are much more pinchy, there are a bunch of off-camber corners. 29ers such donkey dick here, which is why nobody has them.

My thoughts are that if you ride a variety of terrain, and are a solid technical rider, 26in wheels are simply more versatile. They might be a fraction slower in *some* situations, such open, flowy descending (where there is very little time to be made up in a race situation anyway) but they are never downright horrible. The same cannot be said, in my experience, for 29in wheels.

xc duallies are generally moving in the direction of 120mm travel, rather than 100mm. Bikes do this about every 5 years. 5 years ago, most xc bikes were 80mm. Before that, a lot were 63mm. Suspension technology is getting a lot better. You can very easily get away with a 26in wheeled, 5in travel bike for xc racing (unless you're at or above the pointy end of a-grade, but most of those guys are on hardtails anyway). This is good news for riders like you. 26in wheels, solid pedalling platform, more travel.

It is horses for courses. Get the bike that you like. If you can, try to have atleast a car park test. Not all bike shops (not even most) can just lend out any bike in your size for you to shred on for the weekend. If you've ridden a bunch, you should have a pretty good sense of the feel of a bike. Sometimes a bike just has a really nice line and length to it and just feels really good under it. Get the bike that works for you, wheel size is a very small part of what makes a bike good or bad.

Also, fwiw, asking these kinds of questions in 29er sub-forums will very rarely get you good advice. Mostly it'll get you something along the lines of "get the one with the big wheels, becuase they're better *insert joke about training wheels here* blahblahblah, now lets go make man love after we spend 5 hours looking at pictures of 29ers on the internet..."
 

tim3638

Smith of hammers curious
Firstly I think you need to work out what kind of terrain you will be riding and as mentioned tight trails can make 29ers difficult although if you are riding more on open trails that are groomed a 29er is probably more suitable.

And to the guy who had 3x 29ers I am interested to hear what brand/model the one good one was?
 

frensham

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to clarify...there are a bunch of off-camber corners. 29ers such donkey dick here, which is why nobody has them.
This has to be the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read on this forum. I guess it all depends on your skill level but I have never had any issues with off camber corners on my 29er and I know at least three people in Adelaide who ride 29ers - so somebody has them!
 

H-DOG

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This has to be the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read on this forum. I guess it all depends on your skill level but I have never had any issues with off camber corners on my 29er and I know at least three people in Adelaide who ride 29ers - so somebody has them!

Agreed, working in a store in Adelaide, we sell so many more 29ers than 26ers and that's not just because we tell people about them its that people know that for the majority of tracks they are better suited. If you do come from a DH background then yes you might like 26ers more as they are more nimble around corners, and have better acceleration, im not going to try and say that they're not. But C Dunlop to say that they are all heavy is absolute bullshit. Look at the Specialized S-Works Epic. Weighs 10kg flat even a bit under depending what size frame you have which is lighter than most 26" duallys out there and lighter than lots of hard tails even.

Whether people like it or not, the mountain side of the bicycle industry is going 29ers, I know numerous brands are even testing out 29" DH bikes already; because simply unless its a trail which has 90 degree switchbacks that are spaced 2m apart 29ers are going to out perform 26ers regardless on a racing scale. On a recreation scale its completely different and comes down to what you find more fun.

So yet again as many people have said, it all depends on you. Even though I may appear to like 29ers better, i actually ride a 26er because I like being able to throw my bikes around. Ironic huh?
The best thing to do is test out both and decide for yourself.

On a side note: Definitely dually over hard tail. :biggrin:
 

C Dunlop

Likes Dirt
Firstly I think you need to work out what kind of terrain you will be riding and as mentioned tight trails can make 29ers difficult although if you are riding more on open trails that are groomed a 29er is probably more suitable.

And to the guy who had 3x 29ers I am interested to hear what brand/model the one good one was?
The one I liked was a surly karate monkey. I also had a giant xtc 29-1. Completely shithouse - understeered, could never get the fork to work well (was 2009 model which didn't have the FIT dampner) was actually a fairly heavy bike for what it was, and i didn't like the ride quality (quite harsh). I had an on-one inbred that was actually pretty decent, and a niner one9, which was almost a good bike, but for whatever reason I just couldn't get it to work for me... I now have a yeti arc and it is a keeper. The handling is very intuitive, it is light, I don't feel like I am fighting the bike like I did with the big wheels, and I am qualitatively faster on it.

I don't have any emotional attachments to bikes. If they don't work for me I move them on (I'm selling the bike I just rode across north america on...). I think there is a lot of justifying-the-purchase going on in the 29er crowd. Some bikes are just plain shithouse, plenty of these are 29ers, but people seem to think that just becuase it has big wheels it is good...
 

Jubas

Likes Dirt
Each rider to their own etc, but i have to wonder why you kept on buying 29ers given your views on them?

I stepped up from a 26" hardtail to a 29" FS and found that i was consistently faster, even through tight and twisting stuff. It certainly needs a bit more body language, but i'm willing to make that trade. I find that it's also a hell of a lot more fun to ride than my old 26er. I don't think there are that many people struggling to justify their purchase of a 29er - what makes you say that? because you had a bad experience on one?

edit: was the fork you were running on the XTC a 2009 model? or were you referring to the stock fork on the 2010 xtc 29er?
 
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mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I have 3 29ers as well - Giant XTC HT, Giant FS and SS HT, yep sold all the 26er stuff simply cause I was faster (or the same) in every aspect of my ride.

Twisty stuff, the perception is you aren't as quick due to bigger wheels, but in reality it's the same for me. I ride pretty hard and my 26er mate who is a master in technical terrain can't believe I can stick on his tale just as I used to on my small wheel bike (yeah he thought 29ers were slow as well). At times I nearly launched the big wheels right on top of him just to speed him up a bit.

More open terrain, fireroads, fast flowing single track, much faster - more efficient pedalling, big wheels hold lines more securely.

Climbs, more grip on steep stuff - more contact patch.

Downhill, what ruts and baby heads? the big wheels just smooth out the trails like butter - you can really ram through terrain you would normally need to either slow down on or work the line. Guess it's more like having a big suspension 26er without trying to pedal a pogo stick.

Of course everyone has their ride opinions etc, and it does take 'time' to adjust to the different dynamics of the larger wheels.

Both my Giants are around the 11.2-5kg mark, seriously if you can't reach your full potential on an 11kg mtb, then go the roadie at 7kg.

This 26er vs 29er is pretty interesting.
 
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C Dunlop

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Each rider to their own etc, but i have to wonder why you kept on buying 29ers given your views on them?
because the karate monkey was a good 'un, but it weighed 14kg (with rigid forks, and as a single speed), and I wanted something lighter and better. I did not get that from the other bikes I had, except maybe the one9. I went back to a 26in hardtail (which are apparently dead and buried if you ask the 29er crew, not so much if you look at any serious xc field...)

I stepped up from a 26" hardtail to a 29" FS and found that i was consistently faster
Currently riding: 2011 Giant Anthem 29er
No longer riding: 2009 Giant Alias
you also went from a $600 bike to a ~$3000 bike... of course it is better.
 

Clyde Dave

Likes Dirt
because the karate monkey was a good 'un, but it weighed 14kg (with rigid forks, and as a single speed), and I wanted something lighter and better. I did not get that from the other bikes I had, except maybe the one9. I went back to a 26in hardtail (which are apparently dead and buried if you ask the 29er crew, not so much if you look at any serious xc field...)





you also went from a $600 bike to a ~$3000 bike... of course it is better.
And going from a rigid Karate Monkey to the Yeti isn't doing the same thing in your opinion?
 

Turley

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Ok,

This thread has got out of hand!

C Dunlop has made valid points, which was why I posted this thread. I have appreciated his experience, as I have others opinions. So please don't argue about someone else's legitimate experience.

It appears this thread has degraded into a "29 vs 26" thread, when I ment this to be a "29 Carbon HT vs 29 FS" thread.

Please keep on topic to the original question.

Turley
 

Nath8

Likes Dirt
I've got a carbon HT 29er and have ridden my mates Anthem 29er a few times. I prefer the HT and trust me, I'm no young buck or hard core racer.
My mates bike has been lightened up with good wheels and carbon goodness etc and weighs in at 11kg. Pretty good in my book for what it is. If you love bombing down hills and aren't to bother about how slow you ride back up them, then they are a good bike.
I prefer to ride down a few % slower and climb back up a little faster. Thats why I've got a HT. And who says they have to be heavy. I'm quite happy riding my 8.2kg bike around:lol:
Try and ride as many different bikes as you can before taking the plunge.
Good luck.
 
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