Carbon vs Alloy + advice on a new bike (not your normal thread)

[ando120]

Hey rotor burners,

I recently bought a 12' Devinci Wilson XP and to be honest i'm sick of the limited adjustment in the forks and shock.. theres also a few other things i hate about spec. I came off a TLD Demo 8 (which is for sale in the for sale section) which is top spec. I don't want my demo back but i want another top spec/mid range spec bike. I've had World Cups and X0 everything.. you know, that sort of build and i want to buy a complete bike not frame and build up. So i'm thinking either Devinci Wilson RC (carbon) or Trek Session 9.9 (i work at a trek bike shop, i love treks and dealing with them so why not).

The price difference is a lot but forget about that, also with spec, forget that too. They both have amazing spec either Shimano or Sram.

Now. the alloy Wilson i have now is 400g heavier than the carbon.. (frame) and carbon scares me a little bit. So i'm really sceptical about all of this for sure. Carbon seems really weak in a few aspects. Bolts on a bike can't be over tightened too much or it damages the frame, also devinci don't warrant frames that have been raced on if i cracked it from a rock. Trek is a lot more helpful than that for sure.

So if you could buy a bike, or get one for free, but didn't have the dollars to spend on repairs, what would you get?

This is all probably confusing but hmm,

 

[guitar1234]

Now. the alloy Wilson i have now is 400g heavier than the carbon.. (frame) and carbon scares me a little bit. So i'm really sceptical about all of this for sure. Carbon seems really weak in a few aspects. Bolts on a bike can't be over tightened too much or it damages the frame, also devinci don't warrant frames that have been raced on if i cracked it from a rock. Trek is a lot more helpful than that for sure.

So if you could buy a bike, or get one for free, but didn't have the dollars to spend on repairs, what would you get?

This is all probably confusing but hmm,

Get the Trek. Carbon is superior in almost every aspect to aluminium, there is really no reason to be scared by it, Trek have been using it for 10+ years so I'd assume they have some knowledge behind it, if you can get it a bit cheaper than why not.

 

[ando120]

Its not for a discount with the Trek, I'm serious.. they're wicked to deal with.. Yet i'm 65kg and struggle with cornering, i have no weight to put down to get traction so the wilson has been amazing! Obviously the Wilson is cheaper too...

 

[forest_ninja]

You say here the price difference is huge ?
Well definitely go the cheapest option.
They are both as capable as each other, both podium bikes, and unless you're going to push them to the absolute limit, you probably wont be faster on one rather than the other.

Unless there is something awful about the cheap option (which there isnt), id say go for the cheap option for sure. Keep the saved cash for spare parts or race entry fees. A real no brainer in my opinion

As far as carbon vs alloy, pretty sure this has been debated time and time again, carbon is nothing to worry about. Frames are stiffer and lighter. But I think they dont handle blunt impacts as well (how many alloy frames do?).

Not 100% sure on the above, but the point im trying to make, dont stress about running a carbon frame

 

[driftking]

Its not for a discount with the Trek, I'm serious.. they're wicked to deal with.. Yet i'm 65kg and struggle with cornering, i have no weight to put down to get traction so the wilson has been amazing! Obviously the Wilson is cheaper too...

65kg dude troy brosnan was like 55kg when he was a jnr. The grip for cornering is going to come from your riding speed and technique not your weight.

As for the bikes I'm a big fan of the Wilson however you mentioned the warranty.
If trek do warranty for races bikes and that gives you more confidence to for it however ultimately you need to choose the bike you want to ride. If you work for a trek dealer can you ride the bike? You have alread go a divinci so you have a idea how it feels go by which one you prefer.

Carbon has strength issues if its built poorly but when built well carbon is a better material. They have certain force directions and that that can be a little more damaging but wih modern bikes you can be sure they are well designed. There are some carbon bikes I wouldn't trust but the trek and divinci for me are trust worthy.

Its smart to go with a well supported bike but I you really not like the trek the much you will end up regretting the choice. If you like both and would be happy with either get the one with the support behindit.

 

[ando120]

Cheers guys for the comments, i knew i'd bring up some debate on my weight and cornering.. Sorry, but yeah i just corner better on a lower bb frame, that's all i'm trying to say umm, one thing that i'm concerned about is, devinci frames are 400 grams difference in alloy and carbon.. but the thing is, if i build my frame to spec i want, the 12' frame makes everything so much less value because it's an 'old' frame.. So a 'new' bike is sort of what i'm dealing with i think

 

[guitar1234]

Cheers guys for the comments, i knew i'd bring up some debate on my weight and cornering.. Sorry, but yeah i just corner better on a lower bb frame, that's all i'm trying to say umm, one thing that i'm concerned about is, devinci frames are 400 grams difference in alloy and carbon.. but the thing is, if i build my frame to spec i want, the 12' frame makes everything so much less value because it's an 'old' frame.. So a 'new' bike is sort of what i'm dealing with i think

Why does value and age really matter if you're happy with your ride? My Session is a 2010 model, and I'm happy with the way it rides and the spec, so I couldn't care less if its worth nothing to the next guy, sure I'd lose money if I sold it, but DH bikes don't hold their value.

and 400g is really not a lot, go tubeless and you'd probably get close to saving that much, the biggest change you would feel would be the differences between the materials, not weight

 

[driftking]

Why does value and age really matter if you're happy with your ride? My Session is a 2010 model, and I'm happy with the way it rides and the spec, so I couldn't care less if its worth nothing to the next guy, sure I'd lose money if I sold it, but DH bikes don't hold their value.

and 400g is really not a lot, go tubeless and you'd probably get close to saving that much, the biggest change you would feel would be the differences between the materials, not weight

+1 on this the carbon should feel stiffer more snappy and direct it also has a nice little touch if taking out small vibration on trail (don't expect anything amazing here though) 400grams of static weight is nothing really upping your tires a few psi will do more.

As for the resale why worry? How often are you going to sell a bike, all bikes lose resale value so its not like an investment, you ride what you enjoy the resale should really matter.I ride a 2011 commencal and have no problems with it, its also about 18kg and I have no issues with the weight.

Focus more on the performance charateristics of each bike and what you like rather than the resale value.

 

[ando120]

See i've had 2 bikes in 2 years.. but i'm unhappy with the shitty spec on the wilson xp and i was overwhelmed by the top spec on the demo, i need to go more in-between but hmm, i'm unsure!

 

[driftking]

See i've had 2 bikes in 2 years.. but i'm unhappy with the shitty spec on the wilson xp and i was overwhelmed by the top spec on the demo, i need to go more in-between but hmm, i'm unsure!

What was it about the High spec that was an issue or overwhelming was it more to do with the suspension set up?


Generally high spec is pricey for little gain ie x-0 over x-9 etc the prices are high for small gain. Generally the best bet for cash and performance is high spec on the suspension and brakes and then just stick mid spec with everything else.

 

[ando120]

What was it about the High spec that was an issue or overwhelming was it more to do with the suspension set up?


Generally high spec is pricey for little gain ie x-0 over x-9 etc the prices are high for small gain. Generally the best bet for cash and performance is high spec on the suspension and brakes and then just stick mid spec with everything else.

As an intermediate rider the high spec made me look like a poser, so i went to bottom spec, and now i know what i want.. i want say x9 to x0 shifter, fox 40 float/world cups and rc4/cane creek/vivid

You know where i'm coming from!

 

[driftking]

As an intermediate rider the high spec made me look like a poser, so i went to bottom spec, and now i know what i want.. i want say x9 to x0 shifter, fox 40 float/world cups and rc4/cane creek/vivid

You know where i'm coming from!

First don't worry about looking like a poser if you can afford nice things get them.

However it seems like it did benefit you getting a lower spec because you know what you want now. Buying complete might be a bit hard in this situation if you have specific wants. it sounds like you still want a high build but your more conscious about what parts actually matter. Example the x-0 shifter to x-9 mech is a great combination for a lower price.

it sounds like you affordable higher ends parts for most the smaller stuff but stick with high end suspension, frame and brakes as these are really what matters most. Have you considered building up a frame?

 

[ando120]

First don't worry about looking like a poser if you can afford nice things get them.

However it seems like it did benefit you getting a lower spec because you know what you want now. Buying complete might be a bit hard in this situation if you have specific wants. it sounds like you still want a high build but your more conscious about what parts actually matter. Example the x-0 shifter to x-9 mech is a great combination for a lower price.

it sounds like you affordable higher ends parts for most the smaller stuff but stick with high end suspension, frame and brakes as these are really what matters most. Have you considered building up a frame?

Not again.. The Demo cost me an arm and a leg! I think i'll go a Devinci Wilson SL and just stick with everything, or an RC and upgrade a few things.. whichever is cheaper.

 

[driftking]

Not again.. The Demo cost me an arm and a leg! I think i'll go a Devinci Wilson SL and just stick with everything, or an RC and upgrade a few things.. whichever is cheaper.

Yeah the main things are suspension and brakes (well after the frame obviously) so as long as you nail those your sweet.