Carbon wheels. Disc brakes?

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dusty_nz

Likes Dirt
Going to be up for a new bike early next year and trying to plan ahead.

Would like to get some nice aero wheels but the combination of carbon rims and braking limitations is causing me to hesitate.

Ideally it will need to be all weather and can't be ar5ed swapping wheels and pads when its raining.

Disc brakes seem to be a great option.

Will allow high strength resins and fibre to be used in the rim side walls. Currently weaker resins with better heat resistence is used.
Reduced mass in the rim with the dropping of braking requirements. Extra material used to re-inforce this area. Both for wear as well as strength when hot.

Realize discs are heavier but are they slower considering the moving of mass from the rim to the center of the wheel is an ideal situation.

Anyway, my thoughts are about holding out or shopping for a disc capable endance/race bike. Eg fork and frame only as a start.

What do people think and what is out there?
 
G

g-fish

Likes Bikes and Dirt
dusty_nz said:
What do people think and what is out there?
Click to expand...
I think disc brakes are the bomb, especially if you want to run carbon rims.. The two issues I've noticed from the (very) few disc brake road bikes I've ridden have been:
1. The brakes are still pretty shit, bb7 road are no where near as good as bb7 mtns.
2. There is a limitation of grip with the narrow tires, which means you can't use the full force of the brakes reaching the grip threshold of the tire.

As for bikes, what sort of material do you want it to be made from? And do you want specifically a race bike? As there are a few endurance oriented things out there, but not many race bikes.

Edit, I'll add a bike in here:
Foundry Riveter, disc brake carbon race bike.
http://foundrycycles.com/bikes/riveter#info-gallery
riveter_comp_lg1.jpg

They also do a endurance road bike with discs, but who wants that.. It's almost as lame as a specialized roubaix with discs :p
 
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harmonix1234

harmonix1234

Eats Squid
Have you considered the core carbons?
They are all carbon, light (1350 grams fir the 38mm pair), affordable (about $1,300ish) and they are Aussie made (in melb).

UCI approved and battle tested. A mate of mine who manages the Tasvend Boutique Bike racing team is sponsored by them and he was saying to me just the other day that he has put in about 5,000 mountainous kms on his 58's and they are still true as an arrow and the braking surface has not been noticeably degraded.

He has used them to decent Collins Cap and Mt Wellington numerous times (approx 1,500m straight down sppeds up to 90kph) and he has never managed to cook or warp them.

I have descended Mt Wellington with my XT brakes and cooked my rotors to the point that they stopped working. So It's a big statement for the core carbons.

Also, they are rated to about 100 kilo riders so most peeps will be safe on them unless your'e choggin it up.

Two riders on the Tas Vend team actually use them as their go-to wheels over their Zipp firecrest 303's and 404's that come in at triple the price.

The core carbons also have great modulation and feel fr braking and superior braking compared to other carbon rims.
In fact, my mate says that his core carbons actually brake better in the wet than his alloy mavic krysiums. Braking in the dry is apparently about the same as a good alloy rim.
They have made US podiums, Aussie podiums, and the owner is nuts about supporting local Aussie talent.

I'm getting some for Xmas. Can't wait.

Also, if you buy them through the boutique bikes website you get some kind of discount. Not sure how much but think it's about $150 or something.

Check em out.

http://corecarbonwheels.com.au/

If you are set on discs. Check out the 2013 roubaix disc. Endurance/race road. With the discs. Awesome.
It's also available as a frame only option.

 
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Sumgy

Sumgy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
dusty_nz said:
Going to be up for a new bike early next year and trying to plan ahead.

Would like to get some nice aero wheels but the combination of carbon rims and braking limitations is causing me to hesitate.

Ideally it will need to be all weather and can't be ar5ed swapping wheels and pads when its raining.

Disc brakes seem to be a great option.

Will allow high strength resins and fibre to be used in the rim side walls. Currently weaker resins with better heat resistence is used.
Reduced mass in the rim with the dropping of braking requirements. Extra material used to re-inforce this area. Both for wear as well as strength when hot.

Realize discs are heavier but are they slower considering the moving of mass from the rim to the center of the wheel is an ideal situation.

Anyway, my thoughts are about holding out or shopping for a disc capable endance/race bike. Eg fork and frame only as a start.

What do people think and what is out there?
Click to expand...
My question is why?
If you are buying deep dish aero wheels the main reason to do so outside of CX would be for crits, TT or triathlon.
AFAIK none of these types of events will allow you to run discs and unless the UCI does a complete backflip on their wheel safety rules they never will.
I dont get why you want deep dish carbon wheels for general riding.
I have 60mm deep carbon wheels and would never use them for day to day riding.
 
D

dusty_nz

Likes Dirt
Sumgy said:
My question is why?
If you are buying deep dish aero wheels the main reason to do so outside of CX would be for crits, TT or triathlon.
AFAIK none of these types of events will allow you to run discs and unless the UCI does a complete backflip on their wheel safety rules they never will.
I dont get why you want deep dish carbon wheels for general riding.
I have 60mm deep carbon wheels and would never use them for day to day riding.
Click to expand...
Question is why not.

Would not get deep disk. Prob a 40mm or 50 max however the carbon is the go.

Problem is carbon and rim brakes arn't mixing that well.
 
Sumgy

Sumgy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
dusty_nz said:
Question is why not.

Would not get deep disk. Prob a 40mm or 50 max however the carbon is the go.

Problem is carbon and rim brakes arn't mixing that well.
Click to expand...
OK.
If that floats your boat.
I honestly dont see the point and can not see any benefits that you would get from a carbon rim vs an aluminium one.
I also dont get the supposed benefits of disc brakes on road bikes.
 
harmonix1234

harmonix1234

Eats Squid
Sumgy,

I was after some carbon 38mm clincher as an all rounder that I can race and train on, and use as a general road wheel to go and explore the world and have something that's a bit of an 'everything' wheel. A bit aero, good enough to race E grade crits, something I can just leave on my bike.

I like the 38's because they aren't massive deep dish wheels but still more aero that a standard sized alloy rim. And they look cool.
However, I am open to suggestions and don't have as much experience with 700c wheels.

Any alternative recommendations for someone with my riding goals?

Sorry to hijack thread, just curious to see what else is as good or better as an all rounder.
 
D

dusty_nz

Likes Dirt
The key is aerodynamics. To make a significantly aerodynamic wheel in ali the rim gets heavy. It is a lot easier to achieve great weight and strength with carbon.

The downside of carbon is that it does not handle the heat buildup that rim brakes generate. The resins are very temperature sensitive so weaker but less temperature sensitive resins are used.
Also the braking surface needs extra material for strength which adds more weight at the outside of the rim. Not ideal.
Finally with carbon rims, Rim brakes and water result in zero braking.

Disc brakes allow for a lighter and stronger carbon rim and also maintaining good consistent wet and dry performance. Less material at the outside which results in a faster accelerating wheel.

I am not looking for disc brakes out of the block however I believe it will become a serious option in the next few years and would be a great option to have at a latter date.
 
D

dusty_nz

Likes Dirt
From what I have seen and heard the Mavic Cosmics are the best all round, all year carbon rim.

Uses alloy for the braking surface and carbon for the aerodynamics. Weight is ok (1500 i think)



harmonix1234 said:
Sumgy,

I was after some carbon 38mm clincher as an all rounder that I can race and train on, and use as a general road wheel to go and explore the world and have something that's a bit of an 'everything' wheel. A bit aero, good enough to race E grade crits, something I can just leave on my bike.

I like the 38's because they aren't massive deep dish wheels but still more aero that a standard sized alloy rim. And they look cool.
However, I am open to suggestions and don't have as much experience with 700c wheels.

Any alternative recommendations for someone with my riding goals?

Sorry to hijack thread, just curious to see what else is as good or better as an all rounder.
Click to expand...
 
Alo661

Alo661

Likes Bikes and Dirt
http://www.mavic.com.au/en/product/wheels/road-triathlon/wheels/R-Sys-SLR

These things are awesome. If you want an everyday wheel to also race on. Light and stiff. Also look great with the black braking surface.

Personally, these ride and feel better than a 303 or 404 doing the river loop in Perth. Cosmics are meh, pretty much just an Krysium Elite with some carbon wrap over it.

Do have some 202's clinchers at work now, they look awesome, not sure how they'll go compared to the R-Sys.

In terms of the Disk Brakes on road bikes argument: Once I actually see failures of companies like Zipp/Mavic carbon rims overheating from brakes, then I guess you could warrant having disks. I understand running a front disk, but a back disk? If you want to skid stop, buy a fixie and shred those tyres!
 
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Sumgy

Sumgy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
harmonix1234 said:
Sumgy,

I was after some carbon 38mm clincher as an all rounder that I can race and train on, and use as a general road wheel to go and explore the world and have something that's a bit of an 'everything' wheel. A bit aero, good enough to race E grade crits, something I can just leave on my bike.

I like the 38's because they aren't massive deep dish wheels but still more aero that a standard sized alloy rim. And they look cool.
However, I am open to suggestions and don't have as much experience with 700c wheels.

Any alternative recommendations for someone with my riding goals?

Sorry to hijack thread, just curious to see what else is as good or better as an all rounder.
Click to expand...
I know plenty of people who race in A and B grade who quite happily kick my arse on aluminium rims.
Something from Fulcrum would be a good choice.
I have a set of Fulcrum Racing 1's that are awesome.
I raced on these for all of last season in B grade and would still be racing on them except I decided to buy a set of Mad Fiber's through our sponsor.
Reasonably light and definitely a solid stiff wheelset.
I know a couple of the guys in my team are on I9's and seem to keep up OK.

Sorry, I really dont see any benefit whatsoever for carbon rims for general tooling around/training.

As for dusty's comments about zero braking in the wet with rim brakes.
If you are riding in the wet you need to take more care and moderate your speed rather than going like a bull at a gate and having to rely on jumping on your brakes at the last minute.
And finally disc brakes on skinny tyres in the wet is quite possibly just as dangerous as the reduced braking that the wet creates for rim brakes.
 
Sumgy

Sumgy

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