Categories and Grading for XC and Enduro Racing
- Thread starter Knut
- Start date
riderideride
Likes Dirt
Good call 
A, B, C, Novice. Done
A, B, C, Novice. Done
moorey
call me Mia
Here here.A, B, sandbag B, C, sandbag C, novice. Done
But seriously, I'd love to see 3 grades plus novice. I'd still ride B, and make up the rear of the field, but it gives better options for those genuinely unsure what grade to race, if they aren't out for a win.
I can't offer legitimate input into women's grading, even if, generally, I believe that men are better off making decisions for women.
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cleeshoy
Eats Squid
With prizes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each grade regardless of sex? (ie performance based only)Good call
A, B, C, Novice. Done
riderideride
Likes Dirt
Yeah, I don't think its necessary to separate the women. Speaking as a woman that is
akashra
Eats Squid
'Novice', or 'D grade', is generally used when there's enough participants.
We use the rule of thumb that 'if you finish on the same lap, you're in the right grade' - ie, if you don't get lapped, or you're not lapping riders.
Similarly if you're in a grade and you're going to finish in the top 50% of the grade above, you're a massive sandbagger. If you're in a grade and 50% of the grade below you are quicker, you're probably in too high a grade. Anywhere in between, and you're about right.
From my experience, 'Sport', being the state level and higher open level category, should really be a pointy-end-of-C-grade level of competition. In the early years I was racing, this held true - back in 2007, we really on had one obvious, massive sandbagger - the rest of the field was pretty evenly matched at the front. But in the years since we're been seeing A grade club riders still racing sport at state level. As a rule of thumb, in an evenly matched, fair race, Sport should be about 50% slower than the winning Elite riders. eg, when Jongewaard and Norris were doing 14s at Glenorchy, myself and the others were doing 21s, and it was a reasonably well-matched race. Lately though, we're seeing riders enter Expert at state level who at times have had average speeds that put them top 3 in Elite. That means the guys in Sport are still getting lapped, and lapping others in the Sport field. That's not cool at all.
It really shouldn't be a hard concept:
Club A: Elite
Club B: Age categories
Club C: Sport
Done.
All you guys who want a Singlespeed Rigid 29er category, instead we might direct you to the nearest local bike store
What I really don't subscribe to is this idea that you need a category for every four riders.
Once a category has 30 riders, then we can look at splitting it. But not before. If you want to win, you have to actually beat someone. And if you really care about winning, then isn't beating two others a pretty hollow win?
We use the rule of thumb that 'if you finish on the same lap, you're in the right grade' - ie, if you don't get lapped, or you're not lapping riders.
Similarly if you're in a grade and you're going to finish in the top 50% of the grade above, you're a massive sandbagger. If you're in a grade and 50% of the grade below you are quicker, you're probably in too high a grade. Anywhere in between, and you're about right.
From my experience, 'Sport', being the state level and higher open level category, should really be a pointy-end-of-C-grade level of competition. In the early years I was racing, this held true - back in 2007, we really on had one obvious, massive sandbagger - the rest of the field was pretty evenly matched at the front. But in the years since we're been seeing A grade club riders still racing sport at state level. As a rule of thumb, in an evenly matched, fair race, Sport should be about 50% slower than the winning Elite riders. eg, when Jongewaard and Norris were doing 14s at Glenorchy, myself and the others were doing 21s, and it was a reasonably well-matched race. Lately though, we're seeing riders enter Expert at state level who at times have had average speeds that put them top 3 in Elite. That means the guys in Sport are still getting lapped, and lapping others in the Sport field. That's not cool at all.
It really shouldn't be a hard concept:
Club A: Elite
Club B: Age categories
Club C: Sport
Done.
All you guys who want a Singlespeed Rigid 29er category, instead we might direct you to the nearest local bike store
What I really don't subscribe to is this idea that you need a category for every four riders.
Once a category has 30 riders, then we can look at splitting it. But not before. If you want to win, you have to actually beat someone. And if you really care about winning, then isn't beating two others a pretty hollow win?
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riderideride
Likes Dirt
Tim I was suggesting the novice grade to replace the women's grade, but that could be absorbed into C grade I guess.
Pastavore
Eats Squid
I'd just edit that to no prize money at all for anything except A grade. And maybe pay further down the field in A grade. Now THAT would fix the sandbaggers. And I say this from a position of never being likely to finish in the top half of an A grade club event. Maybe certificates or something for the lower grades? Oh, and prizes for best placed women of course.
moorey
call me Mia
Sounds fair. Top 10 in A win money even. Encourage baggers to step up. Shit or get off the pot.
Handshake and heckling is all I'd want if I ever podiumed on a lower grade.
Antsonline
Likes Dirt
Prize money? What is this thing you speak of?
The only races that have prize money dont do their grading by letters (A,B,C) they are done by the 'rules' as Elite, Expert, Veteran etc.
Pastavore
Eats Squid
You have a way with words, don't you moorey
moorey
call me Mia
:kiss:You have a way with words, don't you moorey
Cheers (I choose to take it as a compliment)
Stevob
Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'm all for a SS cat. I think you'd find there's more interest in this than you think Tim.All you guys who want a Singlespeed Rigid 29er category, instead we might direct you to the nearest local bike store
moorey
call me Mia
Yeah. Props. Let's have a front single ring category too.
And one for flat pedal riders.
Better still, a single ring flat pedal category.
No wait, they must be also haro frames...
650b haros at that....
And riding in a skate lid.....
Podium, here I come....well, top 5 maybe.
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splinter1959
Likes Dirt
Which Grade?
Each club should have a person (Assistant Secretary) whose job is to keep records of results and put people into grades.
These Assistant Secretaries should then be posting copies of their club grades to every other club in the state so if someone turns up to race at another club they know which grade to put them in.
There would then be no need for womens or novice grades as newbies start at the bottom, D grade, and move up if they win easy, and as you get older and lose your speed you slowly fade backwards.
At State level races people enter which ever grade or level they want but only have prize money for A grade.
Riders who turn up to race at their club races should not be asking to be put in a particular grade but should be told.
Each club should have a person (Assistant Secretary) whose job is to keep records of results and put people into grades.
These Assistant Secretaries should then be posting copies of their club grades to every other club in the state so if someone turns up to race at another club they know which grade to put them in.
There would then be no need for womens or novice grades as newbies start at the bottom, D grade, and move up if they win easy, and as you get older and lose your speed you slowly fade backwards.
At State level races people enter which ever grade or level they want but only have prize money for A grade.
akashra
Eats Squid
Give this man a medal please. I've been saying this for... well... a long time. Well, perhaps not quite exactly like this - IMO you just need one statewide 'grade secretary'.
But this is basically how it should be done - clubs rank their riders, and someone draws a two lines down the fields.
Or, you adopt a NORBA style system whereby riders get 5,4,3,2,1 for coming positions 1,2,3,4,5 in events. After accumulating a number of points, you go up, and that applies nationwide. Again, the information is all centrally managed.
Hm, now where might I know of some software being developed to track this vast amount of data...
It's not about the interest, it's about
a) The justification for it and
b) The choice to use that equipment.
Riders *choose* to ride 1x/2x/3x 9, or 10 gears, or less, they choose their wheel size... that's their choice. If you choose to do that in an 'open' category, that's to your own detriment.
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Stevob
Likes Bikes and Dirt
jeez...it's been at least a week since I've heard that pile of shit thrown around...kudos to you for originality