Commuters and messengers - let's talk about skitching.

[Techno Destructo]

Tip with drafting:
Get as close as you physically can, even if it means occasionally brushing the tyre on the bumper.

Now, c'mon Rik, I know you're opposed to skitching but surely THAT is as dangerous as skitching if you've got traffic behind you!

 

[craign]

I just realised, shouldn't it be 'bitching' on a bike?

 

[Techno Destructo]

I just realised, shouldn't it be 'bitching' on a bike?

Yeah, it's been called that before, but I think people are just trying to cut down on subcategories and stuff. Plus, bitching is already taken by another activity.

 

[Beej1]

I used to do it frequently when I lived in Kew. The start of my commute was a great big hill which, although I later cherished as a great warm up when I got more serious about riding, before then was a bitch of a way to start the ride to work. Pretty busy road, and there was always the odd truck of varying size going up the hill at 60kp/h or less.

Basically I'd seen the messengers do it in town and thought I'd give it a go.

Only ever with trucks, and only ever on the very back left side, and only if they stayed in the left lane. As soon as they drifted closer to the curb, moved to the right lane or got too fast, I'd let go. I'd also usually look behind before grabbing to make sure there weren't any police coming up the hill.

I think my only fear about the drivers getting annoyed with me doing it was that once they reached the (inevitable) traffic jam, I always worried they'd open their door into me (if they had a passenger). But I'd always be ready to brake in those instances.

I've also been skitched off plenty of times and have no problem with it. I drive an Outback with cross bars so they make for a good handle. I think i've had the same guy 2 or 3 times - I think he knows my car. The only time it would piss me off is if they stuffed up and scratched my car, but so far that hasn't happened. I even try and maintain a reasonable speed and smooth gear changes to assist them.

But like the OP said - it's illegal. So don't do it.

 

['Ross]

I had a shot at it today on st Kilda rd at some traffic lights. Pity there was no actual handle on the truck and I lost my grip after about 2 metres I would only try it in a similar situation where I felt confident with the surroundings and situation in which I tried to do it.

 

[lebronmtb]

I had a shot at it today on st Kilda rd at some traffic lights. Pity there was no actual handle on the truck and I lost my grip after about 2 metres I would only try it in a similar situation where I felt confident with the surroundings and situation in which I tried to do it.

try it on my car one day

 

[Techno Destructo]

This dude must have been having a bad day....

So I'm riding to work this morning through Glebe, and I'm approaching a hill. Alongside me comes a gravel truck, or whatever they call those trucks that haul rocks/salt/sand/gravel, etc...

The guy isn't moving too fast for me, so I sprint a little bit and grab the back corner the truck for a laugh. Well, not five seconds into it, when the guy swerves towards the curb! Obviously he saw me and thought he'd try to rub me off. Well, you don't have to tell me twice... I let go and figured this was not a guy to skitch off of... but he was big enough for some nice drafting! So I move to directly behind the truck and about a meter from his rear fender and start a nice draft. Well, I guess this guy looked over and saw I wasn't on one side, and I didn't turn and ride off to the other side and thought I was drafting behind him, 'cause not 10 seconds after the skitch and while I was drafting, he pumped the brake! Good thing I wasn't drafting Rik-style (front wheel almost rubbing rear fender) or I woulda went down for sure!

Well, he might have had a good excuse for pumping the brake suddenly, but I knew there wasn't any traffic in front of him seconds ago...

I think it was just SOUR GRAPES!

 

[Rik]

Good thing I wasn't drafting Rik-style (front wheel almost rubbing rear fender) or I woulda went down for sure!

Just gotta sit close and have good reaction time, the closer you are the safer it is for stopping

 

[chu]

hahaha just read the whole thread...that is awsome...i have only ever skitched before i have never tried drafting sounds a bit scary for ss street bike so i might have to try it next time i ride to the dh tracks...really strange i havent ever been srugged (sp?) off or anything even by buses...normally when i do it i know the person though...i skitched for about 30m on a car that was behind a cop car before i found out it was undercover then i stopped...which was probably the smart thing to do

 

[Customjimmy]

FFS. Anyone who skitches has rescinded the right to ever criticise a motorist in my opinion. It's dangerous and apart from putting yourself in danger you put the driver in an involuntary position of being much more likely to run over a cyclist, which they rightfully resent. The bicycle death toll doubled last year and there is a constant PR battle to be able to safely share the roads.

Fuck off with the skitching unless you've pre-arranged it with the driver and you're not on a public road. It's 50 different kinds of stupid.

 

[Techno Destructo]

FFS. Anyone who skitches has rescinded the right to ever criticise a motorist in my opinion. It's dangerous and apart from putting yourself in danger you put the driver in an involuntary position of being much more likely to run over a cyclist, which they rightfully resent. The bicycle death toll doubled last year and there is a constant PR battle to be able to safely share the roads.

Fuck off with the skitching unless you've pre-arranged it with the driver and you're not on a public road. It's 50 different kinds of stupid.

A very good argument. However, over the years, I've come to the conclusion on a few things with the attitude motorists have for cyclists.
1. As the groundswell increases for more people to start cycling and less people to drive motor vehicles, support for cyclists on the road (at least by the government) will only continue to rise. I don't think they're going to remove the right to cycle on any streets that haven't banned it long ago, such as motorways.
2. As far as I know, I've never heard anything about skitching being involved with any of the cycling deaths in as many years as I've been out here (about 8). I'm not denying it's as dangerous as hell, but that part of your argument has little to do with skitching.
3. If you hang onto the very back corner of a vehicle, it ain't gonna run you over if you go down. The vehicle behind will do that for ya.
4. What motorists think of cyclists is of no significance. Motorists who were thinking about riding their bikes aren't going to see (a very rare occurrence of) someone skitching and say "That's it! I'm not riding a bike!". Nor will someone of a normal disposition (as in, not predisposed to hurting cyclists) suddenly become intent on running you over. People won't change their minds about things because they see a cyclist skitch. Or do anything else really. People are too well and truly set in their ways and opinions for anything we do as cyclists to greatly change their mindsets.

But you're right. Skitching is stupid. Don't do it. I, however, am known to be occasionally stupid.

 

[slamer]

ive done it once but i knew the guy driving. my mates dad rides his roadie sometimes and was telling me how his glove got stuck in the back of a ute and he had to pull his hand out before a rather large hill was about to descend.. anyone used a motorbike to skitch with on here?

 

[Customjimmy]

A very good argument. However, over the years, I've come to the conclusion on a few things with the attitude motorists have for cyclists.
1. As the groundswell increases for more people to start cycling and less people to drive motor vehicles, support for cyclists on the road (at least by the government) will only continue to rise. I don't think they're going to remove the right to cycle on any streets that haven't banned it long ago, such as motorways.
2. As far as I know, I've never heard anything about skitching being involved with any of the cycling deaths in as many years as I've been out here (about 8). I'm not denying it's as dangerous as hell, but that part of your argument has little to do with skitching.
3. If you hang onto the very back corner of a vehicle, it ain't gonna run you over if you go down. The vehicle behind will do that for ya.
4. What motorists think of cyclists is of no significance. Motorists who were thinking about riding their bikes aren't going to see (a very rare occurrence of) someone skitching and say "That's it! I'm not riding a bike!". Nor will someone of a normal disposition (as in, not predisposed to hurting cyclists) suddenly become intent on running you over. People won't change their minds about things because they see a cyclist skitch. Or do anything else really. People are too well and truly set in their ways and opinions for anything we do as cyclists to greatly change their mindsets.

But you're right. Skitching is stupid. Don't do it. I, however, am known to be occasionally stupid.

Well I did post that without researching the statistics on skitching deaths. I do think it's possible to end up under the wheels of a truck from the position you describe if they brake hard enough though - anyone unfortunate enough to hit the tarmac knows you slide and bounce an unfeasibly long way! I wasn't suggesting that skitching would deter potential cyclists, more that it would maintain the 'what are these farking cyclists doing on my road the bastards' mentality. I think we're on the same page though, looking back on some of the things I've done I'm not exactly Captain Sensible.

 

[Techno Destructo]

I do think it's possible to end up under the wheels of a truck from the position you describe if they brake hard enough though - anyone unfortunate enough to hit the tarmac knows you slide and bounce an unfeasibly long way!

Yeah, I concede. Somebody slamming on the brakes, and you going down, and them quickly accelerating again, could allow you to get in front of their rear wheel and then *squish*!

As I was saying about the motorists... I feel that there's pretty much just two general camps of motorists. Ones who support cyclists on the road and ones that don't. I really feel that there is very little to make either of these camps change sides regardless of what we do. A motorist who has been around 100% law-abiding cyclists all his/her life can easily be totally against them simply because s/he feels they slow them down even by a fraction. That's the overwhelming reason why motorists hate cyclists, IMO. The notion that we make their trip longer (even by seconds). And on my possibly ill-conceived logic, skitching (apart from annoying the driver of the motor vehicle we're skitching off of) would make all other motorists either hate us less or have no effect at all, since we would now be travelling at a speed that wouldn't slow them down, hence not affecting them.

 

[Bodin]

I feel that there's pretty much just two general camps of motorists. Ones who support cyclists on the road and ones that don't.

There's also a third camp that I'm a member of - long term bicycle commuters that have been forced to turn to cars for some of their commuting needs. I used to have an "all motorists are idiots" attitude until I was constantly exposed to idiot cyclists riding straight in front of me through roundabouts (and abusing ME for almost hitting them ), nearly cleaning up pedestrians at clearly marked pedestrian crossings and hanging on to the back of my ute in heavy, unpredictable traffic.

In general, the numerous acts of astonishing stupidity of an arrogant minority of cyclists that believe they're indestructible and above the law have forced me to re-evaluate the way I both ride AND drive.

I'm in favour of abolishing the "camps" mentality and enforcing some mutual respect. IMO, the best way to do this is for everyone to abide by the laws of the road. I know it's a lofty goal, but that doesn't mean it's not worth preaching.

God help anyone that skitches around me again. If I get the chance to stop safely and confront the person, they will be riding home with ringing ears and deep indentations on their chest that have my index finger's fingerprint.

 

[BM Epic]

My argument against "skitching" is this,say a driver accidentally run's over a cyclist and this result's in death,the said motorist has to live with the guilt and shame of this for the rest of there lives,this i would not wish on anybody!
I think skitching is very unnecessarily dangerous!

 

[McPete]

I've had a bit of experience of both;

I've had a mate skitch off my car, by grabbing the length of pipe my dad bolted to the back bumper for some unknown reason. He wasn't able to hold on for very long all of about 3m. I've contemplated doing it in school zones on my road bike, where I'm usually going the same speed as the traffic anyway, but never done it.

Drafting however, I have done. In school zones, it's a breeze, to make a truly terrible pun. Sprint up to 40km/h, pull into the stream of traffic behind something reasonably large and boxy and away you go. You just have to watch for the ones that are pulling over to drop off children .
I also drafted a mate's Mk.III VW Golf for about 30 seconds, which(according to his speedo) took me up to 50km/h. However, I'm not sure of how much of that was aerodynamic advantage from the car and how much was me spinning as fast as I could in the gear I was in (Note; Friction shifters are useless when things get fast).

I'm happy to draft stuff, but skitching really worries me.

 

[Carlin]

I'm in favour of abolishing the "camps" mentality and enforcing some mutual respect. IMO, the best way to do this is for everyone to abide by the laws of the road. I know it's a lofty goal, but that doesn't mean it's not worth preaching.

I am in favour of abolishing the 'camps' mentality too. However I see the 'mutual respect' not as something that needs to be enforced, but as something that should be achieved through less rules. As an example I look to some European cities that have removed lane markings and and traffic lights from the city center. In these cases cars, bikes and pedestrians have to get along by mutual respect.

 

[Bodin]

As an example I look to some European cities that have removed lane markings and and traffic lights from the city center. In these cases cars, bikes and pedestrians have to get along by mutual respect.

I like what you're getting at, but I've been to a few European cities over the last couple of years and they share NO physical resemblance with anything in Australia - especially Melbourne. Even Sydney, too - I'm up there about once a month and the fact is that Aussie drivers like doing 65kph and tend to get shitty with anything that slows them down. Cars and bikes will never get along in this environment, but can at least choose to respect the rules.

Within the old Euro cities, there's hardly a straight road anywhere, the streets are often incredibly narrow and there are pedestrians everywhere, slowing the traffic down already - aspects much more conducive to the mutual respect thing than our fast, open (by comparison) roads.