Depression and sleep disorders.

[NCR600]

Don't be afraid of antidepressants either, they take around two or so weeks before there's any affect and just help normalise your feelings.

Actually, I'd be (and am) very afraid of anti-depressants. I probably suffer from moderate clinical depression, which can blow out into a full on black dog when a personal or work related crisis occurs.

I've never been game to use them, specifically because of the horror stories that abound about them. Most people claim to feel "spaced out" for the first two weeks. Dunno about you, but I can't afford to be spaced out at work, maybe not so much now, but at the time I needed them most, I was on the tools, and just couldn't afford to not be on the ball for a fortnight. Other symptoms include headaches, suicidal thoughts and not feeling anything emotionally.

While they might be of benefit as a temporary band-aid for some people, or as a last resort for the worst cases of clinical depression, they shouldn't ever be thought of as the ONLY way to beat depression.

Probably the best thing I found was a few Jin Shin Do sessions, which is a kind of massage/therapy session. It all sounds fairly airy fairy, but Jin Shin Do practicioners have to be qualified counsellors, and massage, is always good. They're generally hot hippie chicks too. Mine had to go back to Canada, so I haven't had one in a while, but I'd do it again in a shot. I'd come out of sessions on a such a high I'd have to go and get a nice cup of tea and have a sit down for half an hour before I could drive.

There are lots of alternative therapies around to help with depression, and personally, I'd only ever consider anti-depressant drugs as an absolute last resort.

 

[BUSHPIG]

Any one been through depression and suffered from difficulty sleeping as a symptom? Can't seem to get more than 3 or 4 hours a night and it's starting to take its toll.

I have enough other shit going on so would be nice if there is a quick fix for it. Have tried flogging myself silly on the bike (doing 30k loops each way for my commute, inc major climbs) but doesn't seem to help much.

Not super keen on drugs (legal or not) either. Am booked with my GP later in the week, but interested to hear other Farkers (die RotorBurn!) opinions on the matter.

Advice about depression in general is most welcome also. What a mongrel thing to live with!

Try taking mineral suppliments, seriously...
look into it.
I find drugs only hide the problem and not cure it. You might have found this yourself? I have also found that GP's only approach the pharmaceuticals for a solution instead of looking at other options such as minerals.

The way I see it, the human body is exactly the same as soil. They both require minerals, trace elements, enzymes, and bacteria to function at 100%. If a soil is deficient in a group or a single mineral or trace element it becomes locked up. Same goes for the human body.

Also look at meditation, from what I've heard its the most difficult and uncomfortable thing to process, but once you get used to being calm it's great.

For something to start off with, make a list of all the things in life you love. And do them everyday.
At the end of the day sit down and think of all the things you did that were exiting, fun, a great achievement, etc...
But.
When the negative emotions start hitting you, try to externalize them and examine what they feel like and how they make you feel. Once you have learned from them, let them go.


It sounds outrageously weird, but only cause its so open and self relevant. Other than pumping into the drugs and trying to consume something to make yourself complete.


Have a great day tomorrow

cheers.
mick

 

[toodles]

Actually, I'd be (and am) very afraid of anti-depressants. I probably suffer from moderate clinical depression, which can blow out into a full on black dog when a personal or work related crisis occurs.

I've never been game to use them, specifically because of the horror stories that abound about them. Most people claim to feel "spaced out" for the first two weeks. Dunno about you, but I can't afford to be spaced out at work, maybe not so much now, but at the time I needed them most, I was on the tools, and just couldn't afford to not be on the ball for a fortnight. Other symptoms include headaches, suicidal thoughts and not feeling anything emotionally.

While they might be of benefit as a temporary band-aid for some people, or as a last resort for the worst cases of clinical depression, they shouldn't ever be thought of as the ONLY way to beat depression.

Probably the best thing I found was a few Jin Shin Do sessions, which is a kind of massage/therapy session. It all sounds fairly airy fairy, but Jin Shin Do practicioners have to be qualified counsellors, and massage, is always good. They're generally hot hippie chicks too. Mine had to go back to Canada, so I haven't had one in a while, but I'd do it again in a shot. I'd come out of sessions on a such a high I'd have to go and get a nice cup of tea and have a sit down for half an hour before I could drive.

There are lots of alternative therapies around to help with depression, and personally, I'd only ever consider anti-depressant drugs as an absolute last resort.

I'd have to disagree. Aside from studying psychology for several years, I've also been taking a bunch of shit to cope with what used to be severe agoraphobia. By far, Zoloft worked the best and gave me back a near-perfect sleep routine and calmed me down enough to give me time to try permanent fixes. Sometimes, those evil pills are required just to plateau things long enough to make progress through other methods.

 

[bike_widow]

Actually, I'd be (and am) very afraid of anti-depressants.

I agree with steering clear from anti depressants... i consider myself to have a depressive nature, and can generally see the bad side of the situation before the good one. I don't know if it counts as clinical depression - i've seen a myriad of counsellors and never really felt like it was going anywhere, and i've had some pretty severe spirals in the past. (I'm considerably more settled now, though).

Was living with a toxic boyfriend who drained every little piece of me until I was a shell of a human. I went to the GP and told him I was tired, he told me to "take these antidepressants and come back and see me in a month".

I told him where to go, and decided to try something natural. If at the end of it I still felt like rubbish, then I would take the antidepressants. I started seeing a guy called Anthony Yeung, a naturopath in Melbourne who assessed my eating habits, excercise habits and dependency issues. He gave me recipes, that are simple to cook, which made me feel in control of something again, and also got me doing bikram yoga which got me exercising.

Two years later, I am still seeing him (once every 3-4 weeks), and I have not needed to get the antidepressants. Sure, I have swings every now and then, but I know that when I go and see Anthony I can blab everything to him and he gives me a bit of counseling as well as nutrition advice.

I would highly recommend him to everyone - but don't base my experience on what yours would be of him. He assesses each person's situation differently. I also really like him because he's not the kind of naturopath that says 'go home and drink this potion and you'll be better'. He gives you real life advice, and strategies that utilise things in your every day life.

www.beingwellhealthcare.com.au

 

[Ricardo68]

It's normal to be anti-antidepressants. But as toodles says they merely serve to normalise things while you use other means to address the root cause.

They are far from a quick fix. It's not like you turn into a smiling zombie while you are on them. Dispell that idea immediately. You're you, just with slightly fewer instances of negatives self-talk.

They merely take the edge off those negative thoughts so you can address things in a slightly more reasonable and objective way. They say this stuff is 30% physical & 70% mental, so they merely help with the first 30%. The rest is up to you (and hopefully your support network).

Anyway ... there are very good professionals to speak to about this stuff who know what they're talking about. You wouldn't take accounting advise from your mates at the pub, you'd go to an accountant. In this case, doctors and psychologists have seen it all before hundreds of times and know how to help.

Don't f*#k around, get it sorted the right way straight away and don't let it snowball.

I'm lucky in that my cousin is a social worker and after a long, long chat with her I realised that I wasn't weird or weak or whatever, just a normal guy going through some tough times (think professional burnout). After that chat I took it seriously, made the commitment to myself to address the situation and called my family doctor. Looking back, I am very glad I did.

 

[Hamsta]

Not sleeping sucks, and not sleeping and feeling blue sucks more. Seeking some advice from your GP is an outstanding first step, you are to be applauded. I have an immediate family member who has endured pretty serious endogenous unipolar depression for > 25 years, and despite the shortcomings, anti-depressant medication has stabilised their mood. In conjunction with ECT and an eclectic range of counselling (mostly CBT), their obsessive/compulsive behaviours/thoughts have lost some of the stranglehold on their enjoyment of life and undoubtably help to keep them on this mortal coil.

I don't get 'clinically depressed', but I experience prolonged bouts of insomnia that have become less frequent and shorter as I've grown older. When in my 20's, I'd easily stay awake for 3-4 days at times, (working at night, studying and surfing by day), much to the annoyance of my housemates/family, then sleep 8 hours and be refreshed. I learnt to accept the fact that this would happen, and not to stress about my somewhat random 'sleep hygiene'.

Good luck on your search, and remember that you are not alone and their are plenty of understanding people who will do you the grand favour of actually listening to you and assist you to sort through whatever is causing your anxiety/sadness/insomnia.

You have made a wise decision buddy

 

[bike_widow]

It's not like you turn into a smiling zombie while you are on them.

I disagree... I got turned into a zombie by every antidepressant I tried - and not a smiling one, either. most left me on my arse on the couch with no energy or motivation to do anything.

I'm strongly of the opinion to seek a natural treatment before turning to meds.

 

[Hamsta]

I disagree... I got turned into a zombie by every antidepressant I tried - and not a smiling one, either. most left me on my arse on the couch with no energy or motivation to do anything.

I'm strongly of the opinion to seek a natural treatment before turning to meds.

Great, you found something that worked for you. I agree, by all means try what is available, preferably some form of counselling to begin with. But please don't rule out trying a course of anti-depressant or anti anxiety medication, under close doctor supervision, if the 'natural route', mineral supplements or copius amounts of Pineapple Juice doesn't seem to help. Anti-depressants take time to work, and their is no strict time period in which mood state should lift/generalised anxiety level decrease. We aren't talking about Panadol v's Herron v's Nurofen for the 'ultimate in superfast pain relief'.

Interestingly, some people experience changes in the level of their Thyroid activity that can insideously affect their mood.



BTW bike_widow, interesting avatar

 

[bike_widow]

aye - don't get me wrong, i am not anti-meds... they do work for some people. i just don't think they should be the first course of action.

i think it's better to try the natural thing first, because if it works, then it's clear that meds are not needed. i think it's harder to find that out if you go straight to anti-depressants.

 

[slip]

Hard to argue with that bike_widow.

I've had people with clinical depression sent to me (personal trainer) by their shrink with excellent results. One went from a total wreck to having a pretty alright job, finding a man, getting pregnant + enganged, and even developed a personality.

It's crazy to remember what people were like when they first came into the gym and compare it to their current state of affairs, some heavy shit leads people to the exercise/eat well path.

 

[FR Drew]

I suffered from clinical depression back in 1996. Bastard of a thing. Cost me my uni studies, a wad of my friends and my fiancee.

Part of what went along with it was severe insomnia of the "1 hour a night for 4 months" variety. Utterly knocked the stuffing out of me.

Antidepressant wise, I was on Aurorix originally, but when I said I was having sleep hassles and they wanted to give me some form of sedative, they changed me to Effexor. OMFG! Never taken anything that farked me up as much as that shit did. Felt like I'd been hit with a truck. Rather get no sleep than take that crap.

Been depression free for 13 years now. Have my down periods, but that aint depression. One is "how you feel" and you can "pull yourself together and snap out of it" the other is "how the world is" and that's your reality and how your brain is playing tricks on you. Telling someone to "not be depressed" is like telling them to think that "purple is actually green" it's not an attitude or mood thing, it's a perception/reality thing. Not much more disempowering than to discover that your brain hasn't been telling you the truth about your world for 6 months or so....

Still wake at the drop of a hat and still have nights where my brain won't turn off and let me sleep. Far less often now, most usually when I have a big important "something" on tomorrow...

Sucks and I can't offer any real suggestions. See a doctor, don't be afraid of taking meds but be aware of how they are affecting you.

I'm still living with the ongoing repercussions of some of the things I did while I was suffering from depression. One of those "If I could undo one thing in my life..." things.

Best of luck and you are not alone.

Feel free to PM if you want to chew the fat.

 

[Turner_rider]

Am booked with my GP later in the week, but interested to hear other Farkers (die RotorBurn!) opinions on the matter.

Advice about depression in general is most welcome also. What a mongrel thing to live with!

Been there too, so talk to your GP and get a mental health check. If they decide you are depressed (its not hard given the questions they ask) you can go see someone who can help you sort the problem(s) which are causing the depression.

I have some sleep tips from a work health program which I can send you if you are interested. Simple stuff like the temperature of your room etc can make a big difference.

The two obviously go hand in hand, the better you sleep the better you can cope so tackle both at the same time as a few more percent in your favour can make all the difference.

Good Luck, feel free to PM if you want some more information etc

 

[rowdyflat]

Everyone is different.
A combination of medication exercise good diet + sleep habits , friends you can relate to + are supportive.Avoid street drugs + xs alcohol.
It is important not to get into a vicious spiral of negativity + withdrawing which can make it worse.
I should know being a doctor + have taken antidepressants for 25 years.

 

[kholden_1992]

yer iv had heaps of problems with sleeping lately aswell, because of certian crap in my life happening at the moment.

what i do in bed, is just layback and think about my favorite DH track and imagin that im riding it and kind of drift off.

other things iv tried are and all work:

-playing some pinkfloyd or somthing else layed back softly in the background and burn't some incent sticks.

-stay at a friends house, they help take alot of shit off your mind.

-do some push ups till you literaly drop dead

-pray

 

[l +Jarrod+ l]

I've only just turned 18 and am seeing a councilor on monday for the first time. I dont know if you call it depression but went through some messed up shit last year at the end of grade 12. Just been through a break up and it has come back to haunt me. Mum reckons it has alot to do with my abusive father who i havent seen for 8 years. I dont think anti-depressant shit will help me, hopefully monday will be a plus.

Also i sleep fine...to fine. problem is i sleep to much. im not tired at all, but when im not doing anything i just put my head down and out come the z's. Also am not real keen on yummy tasting food, especially when eating alone.

 

[Steve-0]

I'm going through abit of depression at the moment, talking about EVERYTHING with a close freind is a great thing to do. At first i really didnt wan't to say anything but after i spat it out and heard their advice it really did give me a better perspective. Although its no cure it leads you in the right direction (or so i think).

As for the sleep problems, what i did was just change my diet and excercise. Even if the sleep problem is a mental thing (which it usually is, with work stress and all) it still helps but wont cure it until you remove the cause.

 

[Tomas]

Hard to argue with that bike_widow.

I've had people with clinical depression sent to me (personal trainer) by their shrink with excellent results. One went from a total wreck to having a pretty alright job, finding a man, getting pregnant + enganged, and even developed a personality.

It's crazy to remember what people were like when they first came into the gym and compare it to their current state of affairs, some heavy shit leads people to the exercise/eat well path.

+1.
I couldnt even tell you exactly why, but since December I feel better. December was when i decided to get healthy!

I wasnt bad before, im still exhausted a lot these days but im happy. I can manage stressful events so much more easily and feel i am a lot more productive with my work. The self-confidence boost is out of this world as well. I've got nothing on some of your clients though, Slip!

 

[Wellsey]

Update -

Still med free, but maybe not for much longer if natural sleep therapies don't start working (check the time of this post). Lack of sleep is starting to affect my work (not a good thing in my line of work). Boss is starting to notice.

Thanks to all for the pm's and advice, really appreciated. My wife and I are working through it as a team (she is awesome), and I think having my 8 month old son around is keeping me pretty stable. Anyone with kids will know what I mean.

My best mate is coming up from Melbourne soon, so will be able to catch up with him and hopefully get a fair load off my chest. Some things you don't talk about with your wife.

A bit of background on the whole thing might help direct some of the advice. Without going into too much detail, I had a pretty bad work related accident (I'm a tree surgeon, so imaginations go nuts) which left me physically smashed, but the worst is confidence, and the complete destruction of it.

I was a highly paid specialist climber doing work for local government contractors, and pretty good at it, if I may say so. Luckily after the accident I scored a consultancy gig with local government, so that's a big plus as it keeps me busy and the $$ rolling in, however really sucks cock not being able to do the work I love.

Recently had some gnarly family fall out also, which isn't good at all. Pretty much on my own now really, except for my wife and son. I know that's a lot, but falling out with my immediate family affected me way worse/more than I thought it would. Doesn't help that my wife's family are the perfect poster for the "Functional Family Unit" so get that in my face a lot.

Anyway, the biggest thing is just sorting it out in my own head really, before I can get it out into the open and offload on someone. Takes time, but getting there. Tell you what tho, hits you like a fucking bombshell when the G.P says to you "Well yes, you are clinically depressed, chronically fatigued and suffering from stupidly high levels of stress"

I thought I was just a bit tired.

High fives people, and p.s Black Tide is awesome at 12:30am.

 

[exvitermini]

deleted ..

 

[Roaster]

I am a crazily light sleeper, but have tried a few things with varying degrees of success:

- no cafeniated drinks after 6pm (stop 5-6 hours before bed)
- limit high sugar foods after about 7pm (stop 4-6 hours before bed)
- eye mask. I am the opposite of a few folks on here in that even minor light (like standbye on the stereo) wakes me up. So thanks to some international flights, I've got a stack of sleeping masks which I often wear to bed and also to help me sleep in. Work like a charm for me.
- tranquil night is a herbal pill which I used to use but have not used for a while. I found it got me off to sleep very effectively however I was waking up at about 4 or 5 am when it wore off
- drop of lavender oil on the pillow as a soothing odour. can be overpowering if you put too much on, but it helps get me off to sleep.
- sleep alone. some nights I used to have trouble sleeping with mejoolie so I'd drag a single bed into the bedroom and kip on that.

I know it only offers suggestions for half of your concerns, but I hope this gives you some ideas.