Desalination?

[nick]

I know there has been threads on it a while ago but now Bracksy has actually said they will build one down at Wonthaggi to service Melbournes water I thought id post a fresh one up.

Reading up on the process of desalination it doesnt appear to be the best economic and environmental option. Personally I think recycling water sounds a much better option however I suppose the majority of people feeling uncomfortable about drinking recycled water influenced the desicion.

I understand it uses a massive amount of power to operate and 150 new wind turbines will be built to compensate for the power use. My main concern is the affects on the environment with all the brine being put back out to sea. Will this have a big impact? Wonthaggi to Melbourne is a fair length when your talking a pipe going this distance is it practicle?

Are there other methods that should be implemented before desalination becomes a last resot? To all the Perth farkiners what do you think about your desalination plant? Plants are also being built in Sydney and the Gold Coast as im sure most are aware. Are there any issues I have missed?

Cheers

 

[faith_rider]

Recycled water isn't bad. A big read and 2c from someone studying Environmental Management at uni if you are interested:

Think about this: Sewage now, when flushed away from your house, goes through all the pipes etc. and to a treatment plant, where it is treated to a sufficient level before being released into the bay or whatever. That water then sits around for a bit before being evaporated back up into the atmosphere to become rain again and possibly fall back into the catchment it started at. It is all part of the hydrological cycle. The red-necks opposed to drinking 'toilet water' really need to realise the fact that the water that comes out of the tap now isn't brand new...chances are it has been pissed out thousands of times before and has been sitting around since the formation of the Earth 4 billion years ago (and before I get picked on for saying that I am aware there was no water on earth in the beginning...I just cbf looking at my geology notes to find out exactly when it was).

Recycled water on the other hand; after it is flushed goes to a regular treatment plant (not 100% on this...would have to check) and is treated to the same standard as I mentioned before, it is then piped to another treatment plant where it is treated to something like 7x better than before (not entirely sure on the exact figure, again) and then pumped and released into the dam - where it goes back through natural processes. The water is then piped to a drinking water treatment plant and treated AGAIN to the same level your normal drinking water is! Let's not even start about how much crap enters the dams from catchment run off now...I think at one stage I read about concerns that recycled water would the TOO CLEAN for the system.

That's how its going to work here anyway.

What needs to happen is politicians need to step up...have some balls and tell the public what is going to happen...we live on the driest continent on earth with a rapidly growing population for gods sake. I am just glad old mate Premier Pete up here in the Sunshine State stepped up and made the call without the BS of a public opinion pole. As it is there are doubts the infrastructure will be ready by the time D-day comes...

My thoughts on the issue...

 

[Mo]

rapidly growing population

you got that one wrong here, population growth in Australia is around 2.1, that is called replacement rate(where the two kid born per family only replaces their parents). hence the aging population.

and in regards to water evaporating, in Germany many years ago they had something called Acid rain, it's the evaporation of all sorts of chemicals that glue themselves to clouds and when i rains it will burn off forests. im pretty sure that forest is called the Black forest.

so treatment plants that let water/shit evaporate is utterly disgusting and as far as im concerned recycling water is disgusting. as well as the release of air-borne bacteria.

how about there is a leak, what do those billions of bacterias do?

 

[MasterOfReality]

Something has got to be done, whether its desalination, recycling, new dams etc.

No point bitching about the pros and cons of each option, when we run out of water thats it.

The state leaders need to have the balls to say 'we are going to do this, no ifs or buts.'

 

[Turner_rider]

Personally I think recycling water sounds a much better option however I suppose the majority of people feeling uncomfortable about drinking recycled water influenced the desicion.

Which in essence is a really stupid argument as all water is recycled in the larger scheme...

Rain water tanks on every household makes a lot more sense than desal or recycled water as most of the run off in the larger cities goes down the drain and drinking quality water is not required for a lot of the current household water usage.

 

[murrum]

and in regards to water evaporating, in Germany many years ago they had something called Acid rain, it's the evaporation of all sorts of chemicals that glue themselves to clouds and when i rains it will burn off forests. im pretty sure that forest is called the Black forest.

so treatment plants that let water/shit evaporate is utterly disgusting and as far as im concerned recycling water is disgusting. as well as the release of air-borne bacteria.

how about there is a leak, what do those billions of bacterias do?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic. If not, you should probably do at least a miniscule amount of research on something called the internet (you are using it now) before you post, lest people suspect you are a complete goose.

 

[faith_rider]

Which in essence is a really stupid argument as all water is recycled in the larger scheme...

Amen! Exactly what I tried to get across...we simply purify and speed up a natural process.

@ Mo: I was not talking about fertility rate wise. Australia's replacement fertility rate has been well below the 2.1 required for many years now (since around 1970 off the top of my head). The problem we face is high net immigration levels and internal migration (ie people from the country to cities).

 

[MasterOfReality]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic. If not, you should probably do at least a miniscule amount of research on something called the internet (you are using it now) before you post, lest people suspect you are a complete goose.

Cmon murrum, didn't you know that Hans Christian Andersen and the Brothers Grimm had the future in mind when they were actually composing their fairy tales in the Black Forest?

Mo, I can't tell if you were making a link between burnt forests and suggesting that the Black Forest is a relatively new phenomena. The Black Forest region in Germany did cop some damage from acid rain, but its not the reason why it was called the Black Forest. Had nothing to do with the forest burning.

 

[Mo]

the name black forest has nothing to do with the cake, or being burnt or anything of that form, it's just a name.

but it was the forest that got affected by acid rain. the point wasn't about the acid but about the fact that if chemicals can fly all the way up to clouds, then surely som bacteria can be airborne.

MasterOfReality: acid burns???

 

[MasterOfReality]

Yes, I know that acid burns.

As I said in my post, I didn't know if you were trying to link the Black Forest with burnt forest (usually a black colour).

Thats all.

 

[Mo]

yeah, thats cool,

im all up for water treatment plants but not recycling.
and in my view the reason why those things take ages to get approved is that there is level of skepticism from the public and the fact that everyone keeps bitching about "where did my tax go?"

compared to other countries tlis place is awesome and if there wasn't so much red tape in everything that happened, things would happen a bit faster.

 

[faith_rider]

What needs to happen is politicians need to step up...have some balls and tell the public what is going to happen...we live on the driest continent on earth with a rapidly growing population for gods sake. I am just glad old mate Premier Pete up here in the Sunshine State stepped up and made the call without the BS of a public opinion pole. As it is there are doubts the infrastructure will be ready by the time D-day comes...

Also, your argument against recycled water is boggling my mind...

 

[Ben-e]

Think about this: Sewage now, when flushed away from your house, goes through all the pipes etc. and to a treatment plant, where it is treated to a sufficient level before being released into the bay or whatever. That water then sits around for a bit before being evaporated back up into the atmosphere to become rain again and possibly fall back into the catchment it started at. It is all part of the hydrological cycle. The red-necks opposed to drinking 'toilet water' really need to realise the fact that the water that comes out of the tap now isn't brand new...chances are it has been pissed out thousands of times before and has been sitting around since the formation of the Earth 4 billion years ago (and before I get picked on for saying that I am aware there was no water on earth in the beginning...I just cbf looking at my geology notes to find out exactly when it was).

Its funny how peoples perceptions and fears can dominate important issues such as this one. I saw this doco shot over in England about this fellow who was treating sewage naturally - the crap is pumped in one holding dam thats planted with water-polishing reeds etc. Then, on the opposite side of the dam the water trickles into a second holding dam where its polished further. The water became so clean, it was/would be safe to drink (according to bacteria tests). However, the fact that it came from human waste makes it illegal to drink, and additionally people didnt want to have a bar of it.

 

[murrum]

the name black forest has nothing to do with the cake, or being burnt or anything of that form, it's just a name.

but it was the forest that got affected by acid rain. the point wasn't about the acid but about the fact that if chemicals can fly all the way up to clouds, then surely som bacteria can be airborne.

MasterOfReality: acid burns???

re: Black forest - my mistake

Bacteria and other pathogens can become airborne if associated with a media, eg sprinklers, mist spray etc at ground level or thereabouts. They cannot evaporate and therefore form part of clouds and following that, rain. Evaporation relies on the transformation of a liquid to a vapour. Pathogens are unable to do this.

 

[JDB]

Mo, acid rain is caused by sulfur dioxide (SO2)nd nirtogen oxide (NOx) entering the atmosphere from the burning of fossil fuels. Sulphur dioxide combines with water in the atmospher to form sulphuric acid, H2SO4, whichm then falls as acid rain. So its not evaporation that causes acid rain, its burning fossil fuels like coal and oil that causes acid rain.

Infact evaporation is a very good way of freeing up clean water, while leaving the nasty stuff behind in solid form. Water recycling is great, and really makes a lot more sense than desalinisation, since it can be done a lot more energy efficiently. Natural filtration systems like wetlands can actually do an amazing job at cleaning water, they act like a rivers kidneys. There has been a lot of succes using artificail wetlands to treat tailings run-off from old mines and refineries. The plants here filter out heavy metals and other very nasty things, with the end product nice clean water.

So go water recycling, I'd rather have recycled water than no water.