Ebike Standards.......

[Stredda]

Rob created this video saying that all bikes, motors, batteries and chargers should be standardised.

While I do agree that in some cases where the motor is basically the same as a previous model and they slightly move a mount or where the make a motor that is the same but make the software not backwards compatible and that you can't buy just a motor or the parts to rebuild the motor.
But if the manufacturers were locked into one motor mount, one battery standard we would have bikes that still looked like this....

 

[ozzybmx]

I hear ya, but why would they. Bosch, Brose, Fazua etc... Get to lock in a motor, battery and charger to a manufacturer. If it was all the same, people would pick the motor of choice and be using old batteries, extenders and chargers.
It would be nice in the future but the ebike business is too big to let go of market position for those big sellers.

 

[slowmick]

The lack of standardization in e-bikes is the big thing that puts me off them. I have been bitten hard by changing standards over the years so I fear (rationally or not) things like motors or batteries being unavailable outside the warranty period and being left no option but buy a new frame/motor/battery combo.

 

[ozzybmx]

The lack of standardization in e-bikes is the big thing that puts me off them. I have been bitten hard by changing standards over the years so I fear (rationally or not) things like motors or batteries being unavailable outside the warranty period and being left no option but buy a new frame/motor/battery combo.

Then you get other fuckwits like Bosch who control their kingdom.
No one has a Bosch motor on the shelf, all need to be sent back to Bosch to see if you are eligible to buy a new one.
Only place to buy Bosch motors is on eBay from destroyed bikes, then fark knows what you are buying, could be a bricked motor.

 

[ozzybmx]

There is no way Bosch will go with a standard, they want full control of their systems.

 

[Stredda]

There is no way Bosch will go with a standard, they want full control of their systems.

I think that's the same for most common motor brands. I can't buy a Levo or Levo SL motor on its own from Specialized. I would have to take the bike in there and have them swap it out. I can't repair the motor or have it repaired/serviced from Specialized.

With Bafang you can buy off the shelf and there's probably a couple of others.

Fortunately, there places like this that can rebuild your motor.
eBike Motor Service Parts & Repairs | Australia
Or you can go to somewhere like this to get the bearings and seals (as that's quite often what needs replacing) and do it yourself.
eBike Motor Service Parts & Repairs | Australia

 

[Calvin27]

The lack of standardization in e-bikes is the big thing that puts me off them.

+1. I've seen some of the early motors and batteries die and folks get left with a heavy paper weight. I don't mind lack of standardisation IF there is aftermarket support. I buy a car for $20k and there is some kind of guarantee parts will be available and it's somewhat serviceable and it will last a long time. Buy an ebike and I'm basically gambling. I think we have a few years before the first batch of ebike buyers start to see their machines fail and will rethink serviceability - even if you are the type to flip bikes every few years, the wrtieoff cost will be a bit much to bear imo. This will force bike manufacturers to either provide long term support or at least some kind of standardisation.

But if the manufacturers were locked into one motor mount, one battery standard we would have bikes that still looked like this....

I think it's way too early to lock in standards. Developments like new motors like the TQ motor have been good for the development path of ebikes, reducing size and weight considerably. It will be a few years before it all settles down but I rekon eventually it will. For run of the mill utility bikes, most of the motors and batteries are already standardised.

 

[Stredda]

+1. I've seen some of the early motors and batteries die and folks get left with a heavy paper weight. I don't mind lack of standardisation IF there is aftermarket support. I buy a car for $20k and there is some kind of guarantee parts will be available and it's somewhat serviceable and it will last a long time. Buy an ebike and I'm basically gambling. I think we have a few years before the first batch of ebike buyers start to see their machines fail and will rethink serviceability - even if you are the type to flip bikes every few years, the wrtieoff cost will be a bit much to bear imo. This will force bike manufacturers to either provide long term support or at least some kind of standardisation.

I agree.
There's a need for serviceable parts to be available from the manufacturer and the ability to service it yourself. If it's within the warranty period, it's fair enough for it to be handled by the dealer, but after that, you should be able to do it yourself, just like you can with a motorcycle.

I think it's way too early to lock in standards. Developments like new motors like the TQ motor have been good for the development path of ebikes, reducing size and weight considerably. It will be a few years before it all settles down but I rekon eventually it will. For run of the mill utility bikes, most of the motors and batteries are already standardised.

Yes, if things were locked in from the get-go, we wouldn't have the diversity of design we have now, but I hope it will become a bit more standardised, as things progress.

 

[Smiker]

e-waste is a big issue for the bike industry with e-bikes, especially with the rate that systems are being updated (and improving!). There needs to be a move to a few standards, for all of the reasons made. As given the choice, who wouldn't like to be able to upgrade the motor/battery on a frame design they like, if there's better performance a couple of years after you bought/built the bike up?

 

[beeb]

I get that the consumer doesn't want to stifle product evolution - but making some basic standards like motor mounting interface, battery/motor/controller electrical connections (even if this means having spare, unused pins in the looms or connectors to allow redundancy for future products) would still allow evolution of major components while improving serviceability/repairability/warranty replacement/upgrades in lieu of discontinued products, etc...

 

[Calvin27]

As given the choice, who wouldn't like to be able to upgrade the motor/battery on a frame design they like, if there's better performance a couple of years after you bought/built the bike up?

Don't say that, they will probably just electrinically nerf the units and then charge to have the high power version - currently what they do in most cars. Look up bmw with their heated car seats subscription model.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Really though...is a derailleur hanger like arrangement for a motor mount really that hard for a frame designer/manufacturer to come up with? Or expensive to make?

A motor adaptor interface for your frame so that the motor can be replaced with the latest version or even a different brand entirely. Frame doesn't have to change...just the adaptor.

Honestly, the complete indifference of e-bike makers to equipment longevity (regardless of the woe coming to anyone who doesn't look after their batteries!) and repairability is what's keeping me from playing in their sandpit.

Most of my bikes are deep into their second decade and I've no problems sourcing the bits I need to keep them spinning. Will we be able to same the same for a 2023 model e-bike in 2038?

 

[oldcorollas]

Don't say that, they will probably just electrinically nerf the units and then charge to have the high power version - currently what they do in most cars. Look up bmw with their heated car seats subscription model.

Can't be long before app/coin-op features on e-bikes?

 

[dancaseyimages]

Can't be long before app/coin-op features on e-bikes?

Tap on tap off, with a valet mode

 

[Calvin27]

Honestly, the complete indifference of e-bike makers to equipment longevity

Most bicycle makers are like this in general. The perceived issue is that the chinese kee copying them and so they go round circles 'innovating'. I usually dislike the whole copycat thing, but when your innovation sucks, then I'm all for aliexpress lol. The funny thing is it's actually the likes of bafang and stuff that are moving towards standardised motors and mounts. What would be ideal (oh i can hope) is a gearbox/motor compatible interface so that when the motor shits itself, I still can cheaply convert the thing to pedal powered gearbox bike if I feel like it.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Most bicycle makers are like this in general. The perceived issue is that the chinese kee copying them and so they go round circles 'innovating'. I usually dislike the whole copycat thing, but when your innovation sucks, then I'm all for aliexpress lol. The funny thing is it's actually the likes of bafang and stuff that are moving towards standardised motors and mounts. What would be ideal (oh i can hope) is a gearbox/motor compatible interface so that when the motor shits itself, I still can cheaply convert the thing to pedal powered gearbox bike if I feel like it.

The Bafang bikes seem to be good value, and heaps of spare parts are available. The best Li battery tech is coming from China anyway. IMO e-bikes are way overpriced for what you get, the warranty on big brands is a joke as is the turnaround time for spare parts.

 

[Stredda]

Really though...is a derailleur hanger like arrangement for a motor mount really that hard for a frame designer/manufacturer to come up with? Or expensive to make?

A motor adaptor interface for your frame so that the motor can be replaced with the latest version or even a different brand entirely. Frame doesn't have to change...just the adaptor.

Honestly, the complete indifference of e-bike makers to equipment longevity (regardless of the woe coming to anyone who doesn't look after their batteries!) and repairability is what's keeping me from playing in their sandpit.

Most of my bikes are deep into their second decade and I've no problems sourcing the bits I need to keep them spinning. Will we be able to same the same for a 2023 model e-bike in 2038?

There are already aftermarket places that make kits or service ebike motors for all the major brands. It's will become a market of its own, just like any other bike aftermarket spares company. Of course, there will be times way off in the future where you may struggle to get a certain part but that's no different than some normal bicycle parts from 20 years ago.