Electric Vehicles etc

Cardy George

Is not in gaol
I've started this thread to learn about EVs and the like.

I don't know the important facts about them, not enough to form an opinion anyway. I'm probably most curious about how effective they'll be in a rural/regional environment.

So, discuss......
 

rangersac

Likes Dirt
First thing to do is define needs beyond rural/ regional. How many kms are regularly driven in one go? Is frequent long distance towing required? Are hard core 4WDing and good clearance necessary?

Unless you have a large amount of coin for buying a Tesla Model X and fitting a towbar, there is no fully electric vehicle yet that can both tow and deliver a longish driving range. The best bet to cover what I would consider rural needs is a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which is a plug in electric hybrid with a full electric range of around 40-45km, and has a petrol motor for range extension. They are rated for towing 1.5 tonnes, and with a decent set of tyres fitted and a suspension lift kit are pretty capable 4WDs as well. I own one of these, and lifetime fuel use is currently sitting at around 3.6l/100km. It probably does 85% of our driving needs on full electric, and fits two kids with associated klatsch, plus four mountain bikes on the back for road trips no drama. I have also towed a 1000l fire trailer with pump up some fairly steep and rugged tracks/ paddocks which it managed with a minimum of fuss

I also own a Gen 1 Nissan Leaf, which is exclusively a town commuter and kid run around car as realistically the range is only about 100km unless you drive it like a grandmother with the heater off. For a second car role though it's absolutely ideal. Quiet, easy to drive, very comfortable with enough boot space, and is super cheap to run and maintain. However there's a whole new swag of four door electric hatchbacks just on the market with much better range. Hyundai has the Ioniq and the Kona, Nissan has a new model Leaf and Tesla has the Model 3. They don't come cheap though, and have obvious limitations once you get off the blacktop.
 

Cardy George

Is not in gaol
@rangersac range and cost are currently the limiting factors for us, with added layers of 3 kids, all the associated luggage, and then camping, bikes, etc. We also do Mildura-Adelaide multiple times per year, plus Melbourne twice, and sometime in the future there will be a small caravan. And I haven't even started with MTB related travel.

We're not really in a position to own a second vehicle, one car will have to do all.
 

Ultra Lord

Beanie Fitment Specialist
@rangersac range and cost are currently the limiting factors for us, with added layers of 3 kids, all the associated luggage, and then camping, bikes, etc. We also do Mildura-Adelaide multiple times per year, plus Melbourne twice, and sometime in the future there will be a small caravan. And I haven't even started with MTB related travel.

We're not really in a position to own a second vehicle, one car will have to do all.
Maybe if you rode your bike more..........
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
@rangersac range and cost are currently the limiting factors for us, with added layers of 3 kids, all the associated luggage, and then camping, bikes, etc. We also do Mildura-Adelaide multiple times per year, plus Melbourne twice, and sometime in the future there will be a small caravan. And I haven't even started with MTB related travel.

We're not really in a position to own a second vehicle, one car will have to do all.
And so you’re one of the minority in Australia that might still need some of capabilities not yet cheaply met by an EV. I still wonder is two cheaper cars and one being a really cheap to run EV wouldn’t still be economical - I imagine there is still a lot of “normal running around” you’re doing where lugging around a truck is inconvenient expensive and cumbersome...?
 

Scotty T

Likes Dirt
@rangersac range and cost are currently the limiting factors for us, with added layers of 3 kids, all the associated luggage, and then camping, bikes, etc. We also do Mildura-Adelaide multiple times per year, plus Melbourne twice, and sometime in the future there will be a small caravan. And I haven't even started with MTB related travel.

We're not really in a position to own a second vehicle, one car will have to do all.
Yeah your only option is a PHEV in the near future, give it 5 years there'll be a swag of BEV 4wd's on the market but nothing is going to be cheap because it includes a lot of petrol savings in the battery.
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
Yeah your only option is a PHEV in the near future, give it 5 years there'll be a swag of BEV 4wd's on the market but nothing is going to be cheap because it includes a lot of petrol savings in the battery.
Yep. Admittedly the cost of entry can still be a barrier for some (it’s easy to live cheaply when you’re wealthy), but the cost of ownership is where EVs shine. If you can afford to bring that fuel/running cost forward they’re cheap.
 

rangersac

Likes Dirt
Yeah your only option is a PHEV in the near future, give it 5 years there'll be a swag of BEV 4wd's on the market but nothing is going to be cheap because it includes a lot of petrol savings in the battery.
I agree with this, for the moment your only option is a PHEV if you want some electric ability. Having said that the Mitsu PHEV is a good one car solution, we used ours as a solo car for a few years before a house move saw the Leaf being acquired. If your day to day mileage around Mildura is less than the electric only range then it's definitely worth considering. The cabin easily has enough space for three kids, it's a comfortable highway cruiser for the long journeys, chuck some roof bars and a pod on the top and between that and the boot you can do camping trips with four mountain bikes hanging off a towball, and it will tow a small caravan no problems. They've also been around long enough now that there's quite a few second hand units hitting the market as they were first released in 2014, so are a relatively affordable option.
 

Scotty T

Likes Dirt
And so you’re one of the minority in Australia that might still need some of capabilities not yet cheaply met by an EV. I still wonder is two cheaper cars and one being a really cheap to run EV wouldn’t still be economical - I imagine there is still a lot of “normal running around” you’re doing where lugging around a truck is inconvenient expensive and cumbersome...?
There are so many factors. Would it be cheaper to own the 1 EV, and hire cars for the longer trips? I make about 4 longer trips a year that an EV would be a pain to stop and charge with current infrastructure, because there will always be a level 1 charger in the mix somewhere (read: powerpoint) except maybe a Tesla which we currently can't afford. I would dearly love a Tesla over the others though, simply for the fact the others delayed so long (read: 25 years) to make this thing work, it took a disruptor like Tesla to shake them up.

We were very close to doing the EV and hire car for long trips thing but when we got our car a few years ago it was a used iMiev or Leaf and most of them are only getting ~90km of range. There are many more options now and I don't see us ever owning a petrol car again after the current one is done. At that time if charging infrastructure is still not there we'll do the hire car option for long trips.
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
Everyone needs to break out Excel and crunch their own numbers. The problem is most don’t and just assume they know the answer or haven’t updated the inputs with what’s on the market now.

When we got the $30K Alfa we couldn’t justify cross shopping that with a $130K Model S and otherwise it was used Leafs in crappy condition with super limited range. To be fair we could rent a car for the half dozen trips to Vic a year, but I also weighted the decision a bit on the basis the Leaf was slow and boring...

Were I making the same call now, I think I would spring the $66K for a model 3.
 

Cardy George

Is not in gaol
Maybe if you rode your bike more..........
At 8,000km since Jan 1, it's not me who needs to ride more ;)

Everyone needs to break out Excel and crunch their own numbers. The problem is most don’t and just assume they know the answer or haven’t updated the inputs with what’s on the market now.

When we got the $30K Alfa we couldn’t justify cross shopping that with a $130K Model S and otherwise it was used Leafs in crappy condition with super limited range. To be fair we could rent a car for the half dozen trips to Vic a year, but I also weighted the decision a bit on the basis the Leaf was slow and boring...

Were I making the same call now, I think I would spring the $66K for a model 3.
It's not all about the figured, those numbers are getting better, but I still need the capabilities. Would you put a box full of live chickens in the back of your Alfa?

I'm not against EV, i swear.......
 

Ultra Lord

Beanie Fitment Specialist
@Haakon
Whats an excel?

Most people don’t know how to spreadsheet nor do they have access to data to help make a decision except what papa Murdoch tells em. I know google exists, but peoples are lazy. And tired. So bloody tired. Keep em working so they don’t have energy to question.

At 8,000km since Jan 1, it's not me who needs to ride more ;)
Is that all? I reckon you’d be more inclined to pedal if your seat height wasn’t fixed

Ahahahaha!
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
At 8,000km since Jan 1, it's not me who needs to ride more ;)


It's not all about the figured, those numbers are getting better, but I still need the capabilities. Would you put a box full of live chickens in the back of your Alfa?

I'm not against EV, i swear.......
Probably not... But I’m sure lots of Italians do!

I know you’re not ;) One day the model offerings will allow your spreadsheet to spit out the “buy an EV” answer :)
 

flamin'trek

Likes Bikes and Dirt
We are getting closer to real electric cars that compete with petrol or diesel but not there just yet. At this point in time I think an electric only car would be suited to commuting and in town trips. Ideal as a second car.

We have a 4wd as our main vehicle and a 4wd ute as a second that does about 1 tank of fuel per month. If there was a ute avaible with 150km range at a comparable price to mine (10yo) Id jump at it.

As it is currently, I’m looking forward to convertinna classic car for 150km range as a third vehicle that will suit when my son starts to drive in a few years.
 
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