Fines for some illegal building in Ourimbah trails?

mtboer

Likes Dirt
Crazy to do anything outside the clubs plans.

Just a side note, Surveyors took out over 100 small trees to get 'Line of Sight' for their instruments in the surveying of a century old fence line that no one is going to use, here in Sydney.

What the club did was okay to expel them, but the fine, double standard there. Unless he used a bulldozer.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
I know a little bit of what has gone on here and it sounds like the club (or some people in the club) are being total fucking fuckwits. It also sounds like some people are rubbing the nuts of the land manager and playing the political card.
There is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. There is an area in between those two things that should involve some face to face conversations that don't make things difficult for other trail managers down the track. Having a permit does not make anyone a mountain bike trail building God. Building awesome trails and being a really good bloke that rides better than the rest of us and is happy to give up his / her time to make sure other people enjoy the sport is.

I've had permits on trail areas in the past and if you know my background then you know how much validity a permit holds.
 

jrewing

Eats Squid
I know a little bit of what has gone on here and it sounds like the club (or some people in the club) are being total fucking fuckwits. It also sounds like some people are rubbing the nuts of the land manager and playing the political card.
There is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. There is an area in between those two things that should involve some face to face conversations that don't make things difficult for other trail managers down the track. Having a permit does not make anyone a mountain bike trail building God. Building awesome trails and being a really good bloke that rides better than the rest of us and is happy to give up his / her time to make sure other people enjoy the sport is.

I've had permits on trail areas in the past and if you know my background then you know how much validity a permit holds.
Yep reading the original, that's what unfortunately I assumed has happened. Some good guys been thrown under the bus, for the sake of scoring points with the people who aren't loyal to the sport in anyway. I hope the fellas aren't who I think it could be.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
Yep reading the original, that's what unfortunately I assumed has happened. Some good guys been thrown under the bus, for the sake of scoring points with the people who aren't loyal to the sport in anyway. I hope the fellas aren't who I think it could be.
Yep, it's a filthy thing to imagine a club would do just to protect the precious permit.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
Yep... A heart and soul mtb'er thrown under the bus by the club.

CCOMTB- pay the farking fine for him guys
How about not dob the good guys in to start with? It's disgusting to treat a person of such credibility that way. Maybe CCMTB have an underlying agenda they wish not to air?
 

99_FGT

Likes Bikes and Dirt
How about not dob the good guys in to start with? It's disgusting to treat a person of such credibility that way. Maybe CCMTB have an underlying agenda they wish not to air?
You obviously know more than the two posts let on Dozer.

My reading was someone was caught building illegal / unsanctioned trails in a permit area, and the land manager took them to court. They were fined (probably x penalty units, plus court fees) $3500. A further 2 club members involved were then sanctioned by the club and dismissed, as per their .

The clubs spend a lot of time and money to build trails, usually for the masses rather than the masters. They spend time building relationships with land managers that can go downhill faster than Brosnan, and sometimes once broken can never be fixed. The club is simply protecting the interests of its members.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
You obviously know more than the two posts let on Dozer.

My reading was someone was caught building illegal / unsanctioned trails in a permit area, and the land manager took them to court. They were fined (probably x penalty units, plus court fees) $3500. A further 2 club members involved were then sanctioned by the club and dismissed, as per their .

The clubs spend a lot of time and money to build trails, usually for the masses rather than the masters. They spend time building relationships with land managers that can go downhill faster than Brosnan, and sometimes once broken can never be fixed. The club is simply protecting the interests of its members.

From what I'm led to believe, some long time members spent some time revamping a trail that was originally built within a permit period and sanctioned at that time. The people involved are renowned trail builders that form a long history of success at doing so and put a lot of the trails that are in the current permit on the site. I don't know the in-between bits that have led to this situation but it sounds like the lack of compromise and acknowledgement of a big and generous effort by these people over the years has generated a really shitty scenario.
To me, it sounds as though this should have been handled by the club without it getting to the point of forestry fining people etc etc. Not only does it make the club look like puppets, it gives more energy to the forestry needing any cent they can get since becoming a corporation. It stinks and it isn't right, the guys involved are the kind f people that should have their faces in frames in the halls of the club building (hypothetically speaking).

In regards to good relationships being thrown out the door: I had a twenty year gig with a land manager that got upended overnight because someone who preached doing things by the book didn't read the book! It's an infuriating situation that only had bad effects and everyone involved suffered. It's becoming more evident that forestry are taking this approach and condemning the people that should be benefiting them. Believe me, this is becoming a problem and trusting that a club that holds a permit is a sure thing is very much not the case.
As for clubs dumping heaps of money into building trails, I have only ever funded trails out of my own pocket and to use the favorite Coffs Harbour saying this week "I'm a 9 to 5 worker" and have not been able to throw thousands of dollars at trails but still manage to produce trails through hard work and planning that many people enjoy en mass. I've seen what some clubs spend their money on and it is a money down the drain done via bad management. No offence to you 99_FGT, just wanted to paint a picture. ;)
 

99_FGT

Likes Bikes and Dirt
From what I'm led to believe, some long time members spent some time revamping a trail that was originally built within a permit period and sanctioned at that time. The people involved are renowned trail builders that form a long history of success at doing so and put a lot of the trails that are in the current permit on the site. I don't know the in-between bits that have led to this situation but it sounds like the lack of compromise and acknowledgement of a big and generous effort by these people over the years has generated a really shitty scenario.
To me, it sounds as though this should have been handled by the club without it getting to the point of forestry fining people etc etc. Not only does it make the club look like puppets, it gives more energy to the forestry needing any cent they can get since becoming a corporation. It stinks and it isn't right, the guys involved are the kind f people that should have their faces in frames in the halls of the club building (hypothetically speaking).

In regards to good relationships being thrown out the door: I had a twenty year gig with a land manager that got upended overnight because someone who preached doing things by the book didn't read the book! It's an infuriating situation that only had bad effects and everyone involved suffered. It's becoming more evident that forestry are taking this approach and condemning the people that should be benefiting them. Believe me, this is becoming a problem and trusting that a club that holds a permit is a sure thing is very much not the case.
As for clubs dumping heaps of money into building trails, I have only ever funded trails out of my own pocket and to use the favorite Coffs Harbour saying this week "I'm a 9 to 5 worker" and have not been able to throw thousands of dollars at trails but still manage to produce trails through hard work and planning that many people enjoy en mass. I've seen what some clubs spend their money on and it is a money down the drain done via bad management. No offence to you 99_FGT, just wanted to paint a picture. ;)
None taken dozer, thanks for filling me (us) in.
Unfortunately in bris we are running at the opposite end, time poor individuals and clubs with grants going left right and centre, there is little grass roots building going on. What there is is a lot of relationships being improved and previously unsanctioned areas becoming sanctioned, but I've seen first hand how quickly that can go the other wayso take a different standpoint on it - based on my interpretation of things.
If its as you say then it is a disappointing outcome, having competing factions / divided clubs in a small population is not a good thing for the sport.
Al..
 

pharmaboy

Eats Squid
On Facebook, the club claimed trees had been cut down and machinery used to move 50m^3 of earth, the amount of earth was disputed in the comments by others .

It's like getting involved in a friends seperation - 2 sides of the story seem to be poles apart .. ;(
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
You obviously know more than the two posts let on Dozer.

My reading was someone was caught building illegal / unsanctioned trails in a permit area, and the land manager took them to court. They were fined (probably x penalty units, plus court fees) $3500. A further 2 club members involved were then sanctioned by the club and dismissed, as per their .

The clubs spend a lot of time and money to build trails, usually for the masses rather than the masters. They spend time building relationships with land managers that can go downhill faster than Brosnan, and sometimes once broken can never be fixed. The club is simply protecting the interests of its members.
^ Hasn't ridden Ourimbah for a while. Not much maintenance of anything going on there for a long time. Even less now.

As for clubs dumping heaps of money into building trails, I have only ever funded trails out of my own pocket and to use the favorite Coffs Harbour saying this week "I'm a 9 to 5 worker" and have not been able to throw thousands of dollars at trails but still manage to produce trails through hard work and planning that many people enjoy en mass. I've seen what some clubs spend their money on and it is a money down the drain done via bad management. No offence to you 99_FGT, just wanted to paint a picture. ;)
And we are eternally grateful that you have! I've spent a lot of time traveling to/from Coffs just to ride Dozer, and it is always a pants spoiling pleasure.
 
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