Finger problems

[wombat]

Well those on the ride with me today will know what I'm whinging about (although they all think I'm a hypocondriac) but I really would like to know if anyone has had any experience with or suffers from the same problem that I do.

Now here's the problem:
On rough trails where you get thrown around a lot I find that my hands, more precisely my fingers, get very sore; sore to the point where it is really too painful to keep on holding the bars and riding. It's hard to describe the sort of pain that it is, other than to say it's a very intense ache, not a stabbing sort of pain, and seems to be concentrated around the knuckles (when it's really bad I can barely open my hand). It usually only happens after I've been riding for a while, and seems to gradually get worse. If I stop and rest for a while I can continue with the pain reduced but it will quickly come back again over rough ground. It's almost like someone is belting the palm-side of my fingers with a hammer.

The first two things that popped into my head were "grip", both my grasp on the bar and the type of grip I use. I made a conscious effort to take a tigher grip on the bars (I usually like to be pretty loose on them, and I thought maybe I was actually getting belted by the bars) and that didn't help the situation, neither did the switch from a very fat grip (Ourys) to much thinner ones (Ruffians).

It also doesn't seem to be a product of poor posture or excess weight on my hands as it develops regardless of whether I've got a lot of, or very little load on my arms.

It happens across all the fingers which are gripping the bars, when I ride with my index finger resting on the lever that finger is generally ok, while the others become very sore. As soon as I switch to a deathgrip though to try and spread the load the index finger suffers from a similar fate.

I've never experienced Arthritis, but from what I know of it's effects this feels very similar, and obviously is ruining what are otherwise good rides. If anyone out there has any ideas what the problem is, or even better how to aleviate it, I would really appreciate some advice.
Cheers, Shayne.

 

[CHEWY]

Does it feel like its coming from your bones/knuckles or from your muscles?
After a day of moto riding my hands used to get so cramped up that I would not even be able to work the clutch or front brake properely.
After doing some excersices which strengthened up the muscles in my hands it went away.

 

[Grip]

Shayne, it may be worth a visit to the doc for a test for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.. a repetition strain caused by repeated compression of the median nerve in the carpal tunnel. The "carpal tunnel" is the passage in the wrist for the median nerve and flexor tendons.




Damn... should have listen to mum and done medicine!

 

[wombat]

I'm currently chatting to someone who has some experience in this area and I've been told what I'm getting is nothing like Arthritis, so scrap that bit. Apparently what I'm describing seems as though it's caused by tense muscles, and stretching is the key. It seems to be relieveing some pain now, but if anyone has any further experience I'm still keen to hear.

Edit: Jon, doesn't C.T. syndrome tend to cause a numbness of the whole hand though? [/ignorance]

 

[lupine128]

CTS can cause numbness of the hand, it can also cause area specific pain.
have it checked out just to be on the safe side.
as far as exercises for finger strength, nothing beats hanging out at a climbing gym.
duck into any indoor climbing area and ask for grip putty, or something similar. it will come with instructions on how to use it and is the absolute best thing to use. remember that you need to strengthen the gripping muscles not only when you grip, but also in an extending motion to get the full benefit.
if they don;t have grip putty, see if they have any of the finger specific springs rigs. not as good, but better than nothing.

 

[Grip]

CT Syndrome was just a thought, Shayne... and I think it can vary quite a bit. I know I can't ride ANYTHING for more than about 3 minutes straight without having to take my hands off and shake them out.

 

[wombat]

CTS can cause numbness of the hand, it can also cause area specific pain.
have it checked out just to be on the safe side.

So is my GP the best person to see about this, or is it something I'll need a referral to a specialist for?

I probably should use the Gripmaster I've got sitting around as well, originally bought it to improve dexterity for guitar, but I guess the exercise would probably help too.

 

[shmity]

From what ive read and could understand, the symptoms of CT syndrome can be mimicked by a few other conditions as well.
As i believe, CT is usually caused by a calcium (or other?) build up in the hole in your wrist (carpel tunnel?) that irritates the sheath that the nerves are encased in that run through that hole into you hand. This irritation is what causes the numbness/stiffness/whatever in peoples hands that do suffer from this problem. However, since this little package of nerves conveniently runs though our fore arm, and is surrounded by quite a few muscles, when you exert these muscles they swell from lactic acid build up, as most muscles do, and this swelling can also irritate/restrict the nerves and can also cause your hands numbness/stiffness/whatever. I believe this second cause and effect is what is the bane of most dh'ers and mx'ers. Whats causing your problem wombat i don't know, I'm a rocket scientist, not a frigging doctor.
Feel free to correct me if you know something i don't.

 

[roffle]

Sports such as riding can bring on repetitive stress injuries. Symptoms of CTS are basically as follows.. :

A tingling or numb feeling in the hand and/or fingers.
Shooting pains in the wrist or forearm, and sometimes extending to the shoulder, neck and chest or foot.
Difficulty clenching the fist or grasping small objects.

CTS symptoms can also be expected while performing the activity that is the cause of the condition in the first place. Possibly riding in your case. I'd see a doc and get it checked out.

 

[W2ttsy]

sounds like even a bit of arm pump. i know exactly what you are talking about too. i get it when i race DH. but after im finished on the trail, it goes away like it never happened.

maybe you need to get one of those grip exercise things. or do the weight on a string, twisting it on a stick method.

get a 2.5 foot long pole, about 2" in diameter and drill a hole in the center of the pole.
then thread a piece of strong, yet thin rope thru the hole (rope should be able a meter long) and tie it off. then hang a small weight (about 2 Kg) off the string.

now using your wrists, wind the rope up and down. this will strengthen them heaps, and reduce your amount of arm pump, and toughen the area around the nerve. should remove your CTS issues.

W2ttsy

 

[lupine128]

W00T!
my ghetto gym equipment still lives
also look at strengthening your shoulders and back.
think of it like a full suspension bike. if one link is weak it puts more stress on the rest.
it is possible that weak girly fore arms, or stick-figure shoulders are causing you to grip badly. if your back isn't supporting you properly, you will have other problems as you try and compensate.
have a look at your general upper body form.
time to suck it up and pose in front of the mirror........

 

[oleitch]

My mum had CTS, she gets it on long drives holding the steering wheel. Intense pain and pins and needles. She has to shake one hand at a time to flex them up. Good news is that if you have the same thing, it can be fixed by surgury if it gets too bad, so don't get freaked out by it, its fixable. It could also be simply Repetative Strain Injury, If you haven't got strong wrists or if you have increased your riding load then excercise may help. Best thing is still to talk to your GP when you head their next.

 

[naz]

masturbate more

i found lever angle and grips influence it alot, last year i rode thredbo once a week for almost a season, and at the beggining i was runnin ourys and by the end of my first run id struggle holding the bars, got ruffians problem solved.

running your lever really steep(pointing down more) can help keeping ur wrists straight, i found runnin levers flat was a recipre for broken wrists after one ride with my levers almost flat(years ago) i thought i had broken my wrists, play around with lever angle.

 

[ripper323]

masturbate more

That only helps one hand! Think Hellboy

 

[Rik]

I suffered similar problem on this ride (although I didn't complain half as much as Shayne did, I was too busy whinging about OTB experiences), and have done so on other rides as well... what I've found is, as Naz said, the angle of your bars and levers is crucial in sorting out the problem. You need to feel relaxed on the bars, with your fingers curling around naturally, and index finger resting on the lever without any stretching or other strange motions.
Play around with rolling your bars back and forth, change grips (I know you said you've done so, but try it in conjuction with other changes) as well as play around with the position and reach of your levers.
This is why I run fat grips, and bars with very little rearward sweep combined with a slight amount of upward sweep... brake levers all the way in, down at a slight angle, allows the first knuckle of my index finger to rest on the tip of the lever. Feels kooky to everyone else, but I can ride it all day without any ergonomic dramas at all... and that's what it comes down to, getting comfortable on the bars and having your hands fall in to a natural feeling position on the control area.

Just to add, I've found that really rough trails will rattle my fingers to the point where I have to crack my knuckles to get decent grip on the bars again. Doing so gives the feeling of having "play" in my knuckles, which isn't pleasant, and I'm sure it's a compounding problem. Sounds like that's what you suffer from too? I get it in a few other joints as well, so hopefully someone can give an insight in to the causes and preventions surrounding this.

 

[naz]

get a girlfriend, n be ambidextrious, that helps wit trainin those fingers....and she'l be happy

 

[Rik]

Uhh, what do you do? Grab her and squeeze her tightly, repetitively? Hrm...

 

[naz]

lol rik. whatever turns u on. im talkin about,1) position,2) insert,3) wiggle repeat step 3

ehe, nah seriously it improves ur finger longevity, aha, the more u do the better you last on longer DH runs. your fingers dont fade as quick

 

[wombat]

time to suck it up and pose in front of the mirror........

Ask for pictures and I'm leaving....

My levers are at what seems like a comfortable angle, my wrist is pretty straight with my arm when I'm riding, I use only one finger on the brakes but that is the one finger that DOESN'T get sore, it's the one's grabbing the bar that feel it, especially the middle finger (which I guess takes the most load).
Something else worth pointing out is that my fingers were still very sore today, which further leads me to believe that it's not arm pump, and could actually be something to do with pulling the muscles in the finger or something along those lines.

Thanks for the advice all, but it isn't like arm pump, and doesn't feel anything like arm pump either. I will definately work on improving grip and stretching my fingers more, and if that doesn't solve the problem I'll definately get a check for CTS as well.

 

[No_Style]

Myself and my dad suffer from a very similar problem, soreness across the knuckles on the palm side of the hand....I'll be interested to hear if you find something that solves it for you.

My thoughts were:
1) bad grip (technique, ie. holding the bar strangely)
2) poor weight distribution on the bike, to much over the front ( doesn't seem to affect the rest of my riding though so i doubt this)
3) cheap grips (which they are)

This problem started to occur for me after i changed the way i was gripping the handle bars (i used to get sore thumbs, particularly the inner area of the thumb from the bar pressing into it over rough ground) however i find it goes away about 1/2 an hour after the ride.

I have decided to buildup some more muscle in my hands, using those gripper thingies and those finger pressing things.....I'll see if it makes a difference after a month or two.

Cheers