Flat Earth, religion, exBurner, roadie hate, alien existence, mushrooms and badgers thread

Dales Cannon

The Olden Dazed
Staff member
I find the christian take on this freaking stupid beyond belief.. Apparently the devil took Jesus up onto a big hill where he could see all the nations and offered him the chance to be king of it all, this could only happen on a flat earth. As far as I'm concerned it's just more proof the bible is full of shit, to some christians it's proof the world is flat. Some of them take it even further and say it's flat and square because the bible mentions the 4 corners of the earth.
Rhomboid, rectangle, quadrilateral, trapezium, kite... so many better options. Kits shaped so the world floats through space.
 

Cyclomaniac

Likes Dirt
Ok, I will probably regret this, as a Christian for over thirty years I can offer a different viewpoint. From what I see on all sides is a lack of understanding of the Bible and how it should be understood. It is first and foremost a theological text. It is not a modern science text. God has no need for us to understand the science of creation etc to understand him, his character and his relationship with us. It is about who and why and not about how and when. The three short chapters of Genesis that talk about our beginnings are written to lay down a understanding of God in the context of the time, to correct misunderstandings (ie: one God not many gods) and create a formwork for understanding the temple. Understanding of astrophysics is completely irrelevant in this context.
We are all trained to think scientifically, don't get me wrong, I love science. The Earth is round, old and there is no firmament. Very helpful but there is also concepts that are beyond scientific observation. We tend to put up a wall called science around ourselves, if we hear something that doesn't fit inside we dismiss it or we modify the wall. Either way we often miss the point and are poorer for it. God has chosen to reveal himself through his word, not our scientific research. He will not be proven by anything else. Flat Earthers often desperately want to prove the it's flat to prove God exists (modify the wall). Many will say that the Earth is round and conclude that the Christian God therefore does not exist. Why not Both! Sorry, couldn't help myself. My point is the conclusions are both too simplistic to do the subject matter justice.
Both modern atheism and Christian "fundamentalists" both fanning the flames of the Dunning Kruger Effect. As Jesus himself said "let he who has ears to to hear, let him hear" To truly understand we must humbly listen to the what, the why, the when, the who to.

I am not here to argue or look down on others, just sharing an observation.
Flame away, it comes with the territory. I will probably ignore it. Happy to answer genuine questions, just message me.
 

Dales Cannon

The Olden Dazed
Staff member
Ok, I will probably regret this, as a Christian for over thirty years I can offer a different viewpoint. From what I see on all sides is a lack of understanding of the Bible and how it should be understood. It is first and foremost a theological text. It is not a modern science text. God has no need for us to understand the science of creation etc to understand him, his character and his relationship with us. It is about who and why and not about how and when. The three short chapters of Genesis that talk about our beginnings are written to lay down a understanding of God in the context of the time, to correct misunderstandings (ie: one God not many gods) and create a formwork for understanding the temple. Understanding of astrophysics is completely irrelevant in this context.
We are all trained to think scientifically, don't get me wrong, I love science. The Earth is round, old and there is no firmament. Very helpful but there is also concepts that are beyond scientific observation. We tend to put up a wall called science around ourselves, if we hear something that doesn't fit inside we dismiss it or we modify the wall. Either way we often miss the point and are poorer for it. God has chosen to reveal himself through his word, not our scientific research. He will not be proven by anything else. Flat Earthers often desperately want to prove the it's flat to prove God exists (modify the wall). Many will say that the Earth is round and conclude that the Christian God therefore does not exist. Why not Both! Sorry, couldn't help myself. My point is the conclusions are both too simplistic to do the subject matter justice.
Both modern atheism and Christian "fundamentalists" both fanning the flames of the Dunning Kruger Effect. As Jesus himself said "let he who has ears to to hear, let him hear" To truly understand we must humbly listen to the what, the why, the when, the who to.

I am not here to argue or look down on others, just sharing an observation.
Flame away, it comes with the territory. I will probably ignore it. Happy to answer genuine questions, just message me.
Kudos to you for posting that. You must have massive balls too. I expect that you are in the minority with your beliefs but I would expect that no one on here regardless of their beliefs or not ridicules anyone's race, creed or you know stuff. And that will be enforced...

It is a sad truth that people for ever have justified their shitty actions on religion or politics or again stuff. The evangelicals in the US have shown time and time again they cherry pick what they want. Despite my emails outlining various parts of Leviticus none are willing to sell me their children. It is ridiculous, that coal is not going to dig itself.
 

HamboCairns

Thanks for all the bananas
Ok, I will probably regret this, as a Christian for over thirty years I can offer a different viewpoint. From what I see on all sides is a lack of understanding of the Bible and how it should be understood. It is first and foremost a theological text. It is not a modern science text. God has no need for us to understand the science of creation etc to understand him, his character and his relationship with us. It is about who and why and not about how and when. The three short chapters of Genesis that talk about our beginnings are written to lay down an understanding of God in the context of the time, to correct misunderstandings (ie: one God not many gods) and create a formwork for understanding the temple. Understanding of astrophysics is completely irrelevant in this context.
We are all trained to think scientifically, don't get me wrong, I love science. The Earth is round, old and there is no firmament. Very helpful but there is also concepts that are beyond scientific observation. We tend to put up a wall called science around ourselves, if we hear something that doesn't fit inside we dismiss it or we modify the wall. Either way we often miss the point and are poorer for it. God has chosen to reveal himself through his word, not our scientific research. He will not be proven by anything else. Flat Earthers often desperately want to prove the it's flat to prove God exists (modify the wall). Many will say that the Earth is round and conclude that the Christian God therefore does not exist. Why not Both! Sorry, couldn't help myself. My point is the conclusions are both too simplistic to do the subject matter justice.
Both modern atheism and Christian "fundamentalists" both fanning the flames of the Dunning Kruger Effect. As Jesus himself said "let he who has ears to to hear, let him hear" To truly understand we must humbly listen to the what, the why, the when, the who to.

I am not here to argue or look down on others, just sharing an observation.
Flame away, it comes with the territory. I will probably ignore it. Happy to answer genuine questions, just message me.
Why does God insist on revealing 'him'self via an outdated and poorly written text rather than a constantly updated user manual?

Any omniscient God would know that future humans would no longer live in a world of wonder and would certainly have modified the message and the delivery to cater for a new audience.

Also, talking snakes and murderous angels?
 

dirtdad

Likes Dirt
I agree. Good on you @Cyclomaniac for posting your views.

My question in this context is about bible literalism. If we are supposed to see it as a theological text, then is your view that we shouldn't read it literally? If not, which interpretation is correct? And by a similar measure, which version of the bible?
If it's partially literal, which parts, and who chooses? Does this change over time?
And if its completely literal... see Dales' list of old testament shenanigans for some questionable real-life advice.
 

Freediver

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Why does God insist on revealing 'him'self via an outdated and poorly written text rather than a constantly updated user manual?

Any omniscient God would know that future humans would no longer live in a world of wonder and would certainly have modified the message and the delivery to cater for a new audience.

Also, talking snakes and murderous angels?
If god/s are omniscient that means that everything is already a foregone conclusion and humans don't have free will. It's also mutually exclusive with omnipotence.
 

David2406

Likes Dirt
I agree. Good on you @Cyclomaniac for posting your views.

My question in this context is about bible literalism. If we are supposed to see it as a theological text, then is your view that we shouldn't read it literally? If not, which interpretation is correct? And by a similar measure, which version of the bible?
If it's partially literal, which parts, and who chooses? Does this change over time?
And if its completely literal... see Dales' list of old testament shenanigans for some questionable real-life advice.
I'm a Christian too, not a very good one all the time though.


My take on it is each version of the Bible is practically the same, they just use different words to say the same message. I've been a Christian for a long time and I still have a lot of questions myself.

To me the old testament is a history of God and the Israelites, leading to Jesus. Jesus gave a new commandment.

Jesus came and preached love your neighbour as yourself, plain and simple, if everybody did this then the world wouldn't be in the mess it is now. If I'm wrong then no foul, I've still had a good life.

There are plenty of nutcase Christians as there are Atheists, Muslims, Calathumpians. Still hoping I can help make the world a better place by being a Christian. Have had so many positive life experiences through Church, helping at camps for kids with mental disabilities, helping old people, helping at camps for teenagers, the list goes on.

I'm not real good with all the theology but for me it works.
 
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Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepants
a bunch of intelligent, well thought out musings.
I like to think you're not a minority in Christian circles, just quieter than the ones we all see more of. The few Christians that I've spoken to about their Bible tend to err on the side of it being a message, not a history lesson. I respect this, and get a pang of guilt whenever I lump all religious types as unyeilding fundamentalists. It's honestly nice to hear from people like yourself from time to time that don't try to disprove science with a 2000 year old text.

I'm not religious, I've been questioning their validity since I was 5 and that's only progressed since then. But everyone has their own take on things and if yours is to believe in a higher power then good for you, as long as doing that doesn't lead to excuses for being a shit human (non religious types can also stop being shit humans too btw). Keep it up, hope it makes you happier, and if I'm honest I'm kinda rooting for there being some kind of afterlife with all my dogs run by a bearded sky daddy


Bill S Preston esquire and Ted Theodore Logan said it best:
"Be excellent to each other"


Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk
 

Cyclomaniac

Likes Dirt
Why does God insist on revealing 'him'self via an outdated and poorly written text rather than a constantly updated user manual?

Any omniscient God would know that future humans would no longer live in a world of wonder and would certainly have modified the message and the delivery to cater for a new audience.

Also, talking snakes and murderous angels?
The short answer is we don't deserve this "outdated and poorly written text" let alone anything more personalised. The message is that we suck, really suck. Yet God offers a free forgivness at his own expense, yet we complain that free forgiveness is not easy enough.
The Bible is teaching but also the warts and all history of his plan of salvation. It's ugly, shocking and not for the faint hearted at times. It reminds us of who we are before him and that his judgement is real. It is not meant to be easy, Jesus spoke in parables so that
“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.""
Part of his judgment is that the message is right in front of the people but they had to do a little thinking to understand. Instead they chose to reject it. I personally think that the Bible is extremely well written. The way it points to Jesus in ways the original writers had no concept of is amazing. Unfortunatly it's complexity opens it to people taking all sorts of things out of context for thier own purposes.
Also you forgot a talking donkey. Why not? Why should God conform to our understanding of reality?
 

HamboCairns

Thanks for all the bananas
The short answer is we don't deserve this "outdated and poorly written text" let alone anything more personalised. The message is that we suck, really suck. Yet God offers a free forgivness at his own expense, yet we complain that free forgiveness is not easy enough.
Sorry but blah blah blah. We were created knowing we would err and then we were condemned to death by drowning rather than helping people through and understanding how to be good to each other. Or you know, editing the human condition to be kind by default.

God comes across as a bit of a narcissistic arsehole to me.

Part of his judgment is that the message is right in front of the people but they had to do a little thinking to understand. Instead they chose to reject it. I personally think that the Bible is extremely well written. The way it points to Jesus in ways the original writers had no concept of is amazing. Unfortunately its complexity opens it to people taking all sorts of things out of context for their own purposes.
Also you forgot a talking donkey. Why not? Why should God conform to our understanding of reality?
Because it apparently created us. You can't tell me that an all powerful being built something amazing (with some serious flaws) but forgot the manual on how to communicate with it?

I have other issues such as why would it want their creation to be condemned to an eternity of torture for minor sins? Why eternity, why not a sin bin or a reincarnation when you get the chance to do things right? What about Aboriginals, Native Americans, Inuits, Beduoins etc. Are they going to hell for not worshipping?

Why 'inspire' a book with no plans for an update for future people to understand and make sense of? Why make it complex and open to interpretation?

Why no mention of the cultures and landmasses outside of the Middle East?

Why is slavery ok?

Why is it ok to murder innocent children?

Oh a talking donkey yes. Funny how all these fantastical occurrences happened way before any method of recording was possible. Just make up some bullshit and people will believe it. Especially if enough people repeat it over and over.

I understand the urge to believe in something more powerful, it's what humans do. It's not in the realms of impossibility for something to exist but to be so specific and structured yet so vague at the same time? It's just illogical to me.

Those 1,999 other Gods must be spewing they didn't think of inspiring someone to collate and rehash previously written human stories.
 

Cyclomaniac

Likes Dirt
I agree. Good on you @Cyclomaniac for posting your views.

My question in this context is about bible literalism. If we are supposed to see it as a theological text, then is your view that we shouldn't read it literally? If not, which interpretation is correct? And by a similar measure, which version of the bible?
If it's partially literal, which parts, and who chooses? Does this change over time?
And if its completely literal... see Dales' list of old testament shenanigans for some questionable real-life advice.
Great question. First of all to be forgiven and have eternal life it is pretty simple if you take the time to listen. It doesn't matter which translation or which interpretation or how much you understand. It's about who you put your trust in. Is it your works? Your church? Your interpertation? Or do you trust the one who offers the forgiveness. The crim on the cross next to Jesus was probably a flat earther, never went to church, as never baptised and probably broke the Leviticus laws what condemned him to death. Yet what is the credentials that got him a promise of forgiveness? He simply trusted in Jesus. That was it.
Once you are saved it is a good idea to get to know your God better. This is where the study of theology is helpful. We don't all get it right and we are always learning and adjusting our views to understand more. Personaly I think that the Bible does a good job of self interpreting. One part sheds light on another and so on. So for example the Old Testament Law was completely literal for the people of ancient Israel. They were to show that we could never be right with God by trying to be obedient, we needed a better covenant or deal with God. They were brutal laws and brutal times. The whole Old Testament points to Jesus and a better deal. Jesus forfilled the old law for us so we don't have to. We are now called to love God and love one another. How that works out is often tricky and I don't want to totally derail this thread, but to I don't think God cares too much about literal flat Earth or not. That's a problem that we create and have to work out.
 

Cyclomaniac

Likes Dirt
Sorry but blah blah blah. We were created knowing we would err and then we were condemned to death by drowning rather than helping people through and understanding how to be good to each other. Or you know, editing the human condition to be kind by default. I think he did, we choose otherwise.

God comes across as a bit of a narcissistic arsehole to me. Your choice but to be fair he did die for you and is still offering forgivness no matter what you call him.



Because it apparently created us. You can't tell me that an all powerful being built something amazing (with some serious flaws) but forgot the manual on how to communicate with it? No it's there, just not as up to date and some would like.

I have other issues such as why would it want their creation to be condemned to an eternity of torture for minor sins? Why eternity, why not a sin bin or a reincarnation when you get the chance to do things right? What about Aboriginals, Native Americans, Inuits, Beduoins etc. Are they going to hell for not worshipping? Rejecting God is not minor. These people will be judged fairly as will we.

Why 'inspire' a book with no plans for an update for future people to understand and make sense of? Why make it complex and open to interpretation? I got a TER of 40 and I understand it. Not sure what an update would look like. Youtube?

Why no mention of the cultures and landmasses outside of the Middle East? No need to, they were told to go out to the ends of the Earth.

Why is slavery ok? Not really. In the uner the old law it was a kind of welfare system for the poor. Every 7 years you had to release your slaves. You also had to treat them very well because Israel itself was once under slavery.

Why is it ok to murder innocent children? No but I you are trying to trap me there. Again under the old law in the nation of Israel disobedient children were to be put to death. I doubt this happened very often. It wasn't like you could just beat your kid to death, it was something that would have gone before the local authorities.

Oh a talking donkey yes. Funny how all these fantastical occurrences happened way before any method of recording was possible. Just make up some bullshit and people will believe it. Especially if enough people repeat it over and over. So if you saw a talking donkey on youtube you would become a believer?

I understand the urge to believe in something more powerful, it's what humans do. It's not in the realms of impossibility for something to exist but to be so specific and structured yet so vague at the same time? It's just illogical to me. I wouldn't call it vague and I would like to just live however I want but I find the message compelling.

Those 1,999 other Gods must be spewing they didn't think of inspiring someone to collate and rehash previously written human stories.
Not trying to be a smart ass here, I respect your opinion. I used to think that way. I know where you are coming from. Judgement and condemnation are the hardest part to accept. I can see by your tone I am not going to help much. All the best.
 

Cyclomaniac

Likes Dirt
If god/s are omniscient that means that everything is already a foregone conclusion and humans don't have free will. It's also mutually exclusive with omnipotence.
There's so much to say on this one that I won't really try except to say that science is also dubious on the topic of human free will.
 

HamboCairns

Thanks for all the bananas
Not trying to be a smart ass here, I respect your opinion. I used to think that way. I know where you are coming from. Judgement and condemnation are the hardest part to accept. I can see by your tone I am not going to help much. All the best.
Yes because the concept lacks any compassion, it seems way too excessive a punishment. Almost as though it was devised by a being that enjoys watching others suffer. Or mortal beings that wanted to scare the shit out of the plebs.
 

madstace

Likes Dirt
Why does God insist on revealing 'him'self via an outdated and poorly written text rather than a constantly updated user manual?
That would make God an engineer, and engineers don't like anyone :p

As for religious belief, I'm all the more happy to let people have at it (I am not without belief in..."something") except when it comes to certain phrases, like "proves He exist through His word" and "forgiveness" and "saved". Sorry, but GTFO. He won't show up to book signings, as as far as I can measure, I was free of sin at day 0. I could rant on and on, but here is the perfect argument in just over 2 minutes long.

 

HamboCairns

Thanks for all the bananas
That would make God an engineer, and engineers don't like anyone :p

As for religious belief, I'm all the more happy to let people have at it (I am not without belief in..."something") except when it comes to certain phrases, like "proves He exist through His word" and "forgiveness" and "saved". Sorry, but GTFO. He won't show up to book signings, as as far as I can measure, I was free of sin at day 0. I could rant on and on, but here is the perfect argument in just over 2 minutes long.
Reminds me of the absurdity of Adam and Eve and the apple.
 

HamboCairns

Thanks for all the bananas
There's so much to say on this one that I won't really try except to say that science is also dubious on the topic of human free will.
And it begs the question of why punish Adam and Eve if they had either a: no free will or b: no knowledge of right and wrong.

And if God created the rules then it would have known the eventual outcome.

The Jeebus comes along to sacrifice himself to himself to satisfy some rule he created in the first place.

And of course, the New Testament abrogates the Old right? Nope. We're still stained with original sin as a carry over from God's oversight in the Garden of Eden. So to be 'saved' you need to pledge your allegiance to club Christianity.
 

Freediver

Likes Bikes and Dirt
There's so much to say on this one that I won't really try except to say that science is also dubious on the topic of human free will.
That's part of the reason why I consider myself agnostic rather than atheist.

I'm a Christian too, not a very good one all the time though.

Jesus came and preached love your neighbour as yourself, plain and simple, if everybody did this then the world wouldn't be in the mess it is now. If I'm wrong then no foul, I've still had a good life.

. Still hoping I can help make the world a better place by being a Christian. Have had so many positive life experiences through Church, helping at camps for kids with mental disabilities, helping old people, helping at camps for teenagers, the list goes on.

I'm not real good with all the theology but for me it works.
I'm sure you'd be just as good a person without faith
 
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