Gay/lesbians adopting kids - what do you think?

[TheBofh]

Who here on this forum has been brought up by same sex parents? Anyone? I doubt it, therefore nobody can comment on it according to the logic that some are applying.

If you had a choice of whether you would like to be brought up by a mother and father, or two non biologically-connected same sex partners...which would you choose? It doesn't matter if you have prejudice or not, I don't think there would be any takers for my second option.

If I had been given a choice between raised by a same-sex couple in a stable relationship with no addiction or mental health issues or my own parents I'd have picked the gays.

It might be just me but gay couples always seem to be that little bit "nicer" than straight couples.

With adoption heterosexual couples should be given preference over other family types simply because it is our culture's accepted "standard" family unit but same sex couples should still be allowed to adopt as long as they are in a committed, stable, relationship.

You can't dictate who can and can't have children, (unfortunately for the offspring of society's fallout), so if a male couple team up with a female couple to produce kids who's to stop them or demonstrate any reason why it shouldn't happen other than it results in a much cherished child ending up with four loving parents?

 

[murrum]

Another point is, why can't a lesbian just go and get knocked up the usual way?

The same reason your dad ain't down the local beat taking it up the shooter...unless...

 

[treggs]

Are his parents gay ? Is this about one's own parents being gay or the fact that gay couples as parents exist ? If the latter, how does this affect you ? Does it make your own relationship/parenthood any less ?

I can't speak for him but I suspect he is generalizing. In other words regardless of whose parents we are talking about, he regards the traditional family structure to be his preference.

Another point is, why can't a lesbian just go and get knocked up the usual way? Is there something inherantly wrong with that ? How would this be different from a hetero single mum ? If it's 2 women raising a baby then I know a few single mums who get alot of help from their mums to raise the child. Is this the same as 2 female parents ?

I guess their is nothing wrong with that except as I pointed out before if she "got knocked up the traditional way" then she wouldn't be a lesbian. In most stable relationships that would also be regarded as cheating (and changing teams) unless she had approval from her partner.

 

[floody]

I guess their is nothing wrong with that except as I pointed out before if she "got knocked up the traditional way" then she wouldn't be a lesbian. In most stable relationships that would also be regarded as cheating (and changing teams) unless she had approval from her partner.

I would think approval is a given here. I'm still not sure how it would necessarily negate her lesbian sexuality, as its a question of reproductive function not sexual attraction. I would imagine its possible for consensual intercourse to occur without such a shift in generalised sexual preference if its necessary to get the job done, so to speak.

 

[treggs]

I would think approval is a given here. I'm still not sure how it would necessarily negate her lesbian sexuality, as its a question of reproductive function not sexual attraction. I would imagine its possible for consensual intercourse to occur without such a shift in generalised sexual preference if its necessary to get the job done, so to speak.

Pretty much what I was getting at. Would you have sex with a member of the opposite to your preference to become a parent?

In my case that would mean being gay to be a parent. For a lesbian it would mean being hetro to become a parent. Not the soundest of examples but you get what I'm trying to say hopefully

 

[demo man]

I think the point is that a lesbian woman should not have to have sex with a guy in order to get knocked up (so to speak) when there are alternative ways that allow her to get pregnant.

I personally don't have a problem with same sex marriage, adoption, or anything else same-sex. It's none of my business what others do in their sex life. In regards to bringing children into the equation specifically; I'd sooner stop drug addicts from having kids than same-sex couples.

 

[FR Drew]

Quite a few lesbian couples very carefully select one of their closest male friends to help one of them conceive. In most cases that person is also around to be a father figure if and when required. And the guys concerned are also aware of the responsibility they have and the privillege/trust/honour being bestowed upon them. It's not a "woo hoo I get to shag a lesbian who's changing sides for the night" kind of thing.

 

[wombat]

and it would be fair if Elbo had the same opinion. He believes in family structure and something different shouldn't be forced on him either.

You're right, but until someone starts telling him that he has to find a nice bloke to settle down with and start adopting children, then no one is forcing their family structure on him; he is however arguing that his idea of a 'correct' family structure should be forced upon other people.

In fact family structure and marriage are almost the only things left sacred in our society today. I know that I should be politically correct and accept homosexuality as part of society, but simply because it is politically correct doesn't mean I will accept it.

Huh, marriage is sacred? Those vows must really mean a lot to the tens of thousands of Australians every year who decide to end their marriage. Then of course there's our esteemed seppo brethren who love their spur of the moment weddings; mmm, getting trashed and marrying a stripper in Vegas...nice and sacred.
POSM already delved into the issue of family structure, but once again, why do we believe that this notion of a nuclear family is better than those structures that existed before it, and those that will no doubt exist after? Sure, it's 'correct' according to your morals, and that's fine, more power to you for having some conviction; but what gives you the right to force your idea of a moral compass on anyone else?
I have no doubt you'd be pretty pissed off if someone tried to force your female friends to say, cover their faces, because that was 'morally correct', according to them.
I know this link may seem a little tenuous, but you too are attempting to force your moral beliefs on others, with little justification other than 'it's morally right'.

The point I made before about children being the product of a man and a woman holds true. Every single species on the planet needs 1 male and 1 female to produce offspring. If we are evolved from our fellow animal friends, as so many argue, why are we the only ones trying to have offspring in a homosexual relationship? This is why it is unnatural, not unnatural as in artificial limbs or pacemakers.

Come on mate, are you honestly trying to tell me that raising adopted children into a gay family is actually more unnatural than using artificial devices to extend the life of a person long after nature would have had them dead and decomposing?
Personally, I'd say that is a mighty stretch.

 

[treggs]

Quite a few lesbian couples very carefully select one of their closest male friends to help one of them conceive. In most cases that person is also around to be a father figure if and when required. And the guys concerned are also aware of the responsibility they have and the privillege/trust/honour being bestowed upon them. It's not a "woo hoo I get to shag a lesbian who's changing sides for the night" kind of thing.

In my very limited experience on the matter this is what I understand to be normal for lesbian couples wanting kids. repeat: my very limited experience.

If this is a good generalization for lesbian couples wanting kids then they could certainly be brought up in a worse environment.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL though I think a hetro couple bringing up kids is still the best scenario for the kids. That's just my opinion.

I think I have probably contributed as much useful stuff to this discussion as I'm going to so I'll leave it at that. Nice to have a good old fashioned well thought out no mud slinging debate though. Tis rare on the internerd. Good job to those involved.

 

[Drop_Bear]

Pretty much what I was getting at. Would you have sex with a member of the opposite to your preference to become a parent?

In my case that would mean being gay to be a parent. For a lesbian it would mean being hetro to become a parent. Not the soundest of examples but you get what I'm trying to say hopefully

For a lesbian to have sex with a man doesnt make her hetero. I hope your understanding of sexuality goes beyond that. The shades of grey inbetween hetero and homo are as many as the grains of sand (That sounds like it's from a blue monkey magic episode).

I'm still yet to see a strong arguement as to why a gay couple can't make good parents. The vetting process in adoption is qiute rigorous and I'd go as far to say that the families of adopted kids would be more stable than that of most kids. They would have to be financially stable, in a long term relationship and what's more is that they would WANT to have kids. It's not something that would be unexpected or thrust upon them as is the case with a lot of not most pregnancies.

I'm homophobic to a lesser degree. The thought of being raised by a gay couple doesnt appeal to me, but there is nothing that I can see that is so drastically wrong about it. My best mates sister is in a commited long term lebsian relationship and I think they would make fantastic parents. They are as normal as anyone else I know. The only thing that makes them different is the mental repulsion I get when I think of them and the beast with two backs (They arent very attractive). If your vision of gay people is reminiscent of the Sydney G&L mardi gras, the blue oyster bar and the L word then I can see how you'd have a problem but the truth is that gay people are not really like that. One the whole they are ordinary people (I bet you know dozens that you'd never have picked) who have the same aspirations of parenthood as the rest of us. Unfortunately they biology doesnt allow them to reproduce (for better or worse, I don't know) but some want the opportunity to adopt a child of less fortunate circumstances than 99% of us to fulfill that human desire to be a mum or dad. A desire, I might add, that is seperate from sexual preference.

 

[treggs]

For a lesbian to have sex with a man doesnt make her hetero. I hope your understanding of sexuality goes beyond that. The shades of grey inbetween hetero and homo are as many as the grains of sand

I understand there are some shades of grey but if I were to have sex with a man then I would regard myself as at least bisexual. Not my cup of tea but surely in the example I have given that makes the lesbian at least bisexual as well.

Digressing from main topic so I'll stop now

 

[Regan of Gong]

The majority of hetero couples can reproduce normally. IVF and any other "artificial" methods should be designed to help out those who, unlike the majority, cannot.

0% of homosexual couples can reproduce naturally. The use of artificial means here is not correcting a problem, as it is with hetero couples, it is creating a means through which they can circumvent natural means.

As I see it, to use a completely innapproriate cliche, adoption would be the lesser of two evils, although I oppose both on my religious grounds. May we leave it at that without this thread denegrating into another religious shit-slinging thread?

I was asking Spike-X whether the choice of the child mattered because he seemed very pro-choice for everyone. It follows fairly logically that since same-sex couples, who are excluded from rights also excluded to minors, are on the same level for some legal issues. Surely a matter of age should not matter to him. I didn't have a point behind the 1st point- just a mere curiousity.

 

[Spike-X]

I still stand my my above point and also reinforce that family structure and marriage are the only two things I can think of that have not been adjusted as yet to be politically correct.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. That's not 'political correctness', that's just the way things are.

Unfortunately, it will only be a matter of time before these are destroyed as well.

How is allowing gay people to marry and raise children going to 'destroy' the 'traditional' family? Mum, Dad and 2.4 kids is still probably going to be the most common family structure for a long time to come yet, especially considering that only about 5% of people are gay.

 

[Spike-X]

and it would be fair if Elbo had the same opinion. He believes in family structure and something different shouldn't be forced on him either.

Nothing is being 'forced' on anyone here. Letting gay people have families isn't going to stop Elbo or anybody else from having the kind of family they feel is right for them.

 

[Spike-X]

Exactly. Although that brings up another point. If we should all be able to chose the marital/family structure we are involved in, are kids with gay parents getting a choice?

As much of a choice as anybody gets about what kind of parents they have. that is, none at all.

 

[demo man]

+1 to Spike-X

The majority of hetero couples can reproduce normally. IVF and any other "artificial" methods should be designed to help out those who, unlike the majority, cannot.

0% of homosexual couples can reproduce naturally. The use of artificial means here is not correcting a problem, as it is with hetero couples, it is creating a means through which they can circumvent natural means.

Is communicating to all of us through the internet 'natural means'? Strictly speaking, there isn't much left in our way of life that does use natural means.

 

[Spike-X]

I was asking Spike-X whether the choice of the child mattered because he seemed very pro-choice for everyone.

Fair enough. To answer your question, then - I believe a child raised by same-sex parents should have exactly the same amount of choice over who his/her parents are than any other child. That is to say, sweet bugger all.

If I was still a child myself, I'm pretty sure I'd rather have gay parents than no parents.

 

[Spike-X]

Oh please Mr High and Mighty, get off your high horse.

You cannot HONESTLY say that you don't think a kid with two dads or two mums wouldn't get the piss taken out of them. You've been living under a rock if you think they won't.

I am NOT against it for any reason other than this. I don't deny that two men or two women could raise a kid as well as a man and a woman, but the emotional and physical bullying the kid would go through because of it, I don't think we (as a society) are ready for it yet.

Open your fucking eyes to todays society....

Oh, so you can't prove that children raised by same-sex parents are more likely to be bullied more than any other group of kids who are traditionally prone to bullying.

Why didn't you just say so?

 

[toodles]

Meh... I'm all for anyone who actually WANTS kids being allowed to take care of em. Better than all the baby-bonus inspired losers around here.

 

[|Matt|]

Oh, so you can't prove that children raised by same-sex parents are more likely to be bullied more than any other group of kids who are traditionally prone to bullying.

Why didn't you just say so?

I can't say that I'm aware of any recent studies on the topic, maybe you and your husband would like to conduct one to influence your deep rooted opinion.