Gay Marriage
- Thread starter rooks
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I never once even slightly implied that it did mate. Where on earth did I say that your marraige is one of the 30% that fails. In case you're not aware how stats work, if there are 30% of yes's, that means that by default that there are 70% no's. You obviously fall into the happily married range, I never once disputed that. Geez, talk about twisting my words mate!kevpun said:
All I'm saying is that marraige as a socail institution is not as sacred as you make out. Your marraige might be, but the idea/concept of marraige is not. This is backed up by the FACT that over 30% of marraiges don't last (theirs, not yours) and this rate is growing. It is also backed up by the prevelence of dommestic violence (theirs, not yours), polygamy/extra-marital affairs (theirs, not yours) and so on.
The institution you are defending is crumbling because of the behaviour of heterosexuals. Maybe you might wish to defend your kids against them insterad mate?
Yes, parents do want their kids to grow up with good values. What your values are compared to others will be different. Why should yours be over and above others when their needs and wants don't affect your child's ability to have a healthy and loving hetero marraige. I don't see how gay marraige will affect your child's ability to have their own hetero relationship. I don't see why the value you place on your union is threatened by other people's values on the same matter.
No gay marraige laws = a happy marraige for you and your wife
Gay marraige laws = a happy marraige for you and your wife, if your marraige is as solid as you say it is. What, are you both going to stop loving each other because a bloke married another bloke? It doesn't affect you, unless you think marraige is a club that you want to restrict to people just like you.
You don';t seem to have a very coherent argument Kev. Where do current marraige vows involve children? They don't, it's all about the till death do us part bit....which is pretty fucking redundant anyway.
As far as I can extrapolate from your posts, you don't think they should be allowed to raise kids, this is an argument I do not enter into. Secondly you don't mind what they do, as long as they don't use the word "marraige" for what they have but other than parenthood, they can still have all the same legal rights, yeah?
So (other than kids) you're just trying to protect your exclusive hetero club called marraige based on your values alone (in otherwords, forcing your values upon some one else, having gay marraige does not force their values upon you because them being married does not directly affect you. You are arguing that your values should dictate everyone's behaviour when it comes to marraige. Why are your values more important than theirs, we live in a liberal democracy, you know, equality, fair go etc.....)
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S.
ex offender
Does it actually affect your life? No? Then what's the problem? Gay marriage isn't demeaning to heterosexual marriage, people (including kids) being exposed to the FACT that there are gay people around isn't going to kill anyone, and in general there is nothing WRONG with homosexuality - it is a natural occurrence. Claiming it's "wrong" or involves a "defect" that constitutes a fair reason to remove a person's right to have their relationships officially recognised is an ignorant argument, and your analogy to blind people is completely irrelevant - I don't see you trying to ban blind people from getting married. If it's "against God's will" or whatever, that's crap - why did God create gay people (and why are there gay animals)? It's not like they can willingly change it; look how many homosexuals have had to deal with severe depression and whatnot because they've tried - due to social pressures - to "renounce" their homosexuality.kevpun said:
As for gay people adopting children, I'm still sitting on the fence. On one hand, there are plenty of examples of other less-than-ideal parental situations (but that said, we still try to avoid them) like alcoholic/abusive/widowed parents that still manage to bring kids up (mostly) healthy. On the other however, it is quite clear that most people regard their mother and father in different roles and have different relationships with them, and in that respect it may cause children to be brought up kind of one-sided (I can't think of a better term for that, but that's poorly worded as is). Without a full understanding of the psychological stuff going on there, I would say it's safer for all of us not to say it's specifically acceptable/unacceptable.
Edit: woops, kind of missed 4 pages of that thread. Oh well.
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turtle muncha
Likes Dirt
i think gay marriage is fine... and i also gays addopting children is fine.
ive got some very good friends which happen to be gay, they are just like you and me but happen to like other things.
just like i like bikes and 1 of my friends likes motor bikes.
i really dont see why ppl find it a big deal!!!!
ive got some very good friends which happen to be gay, they are just like you and me but happen to like other things.
just like i like bikes and 1 of my friends likes motor bikes.
i really dont see why ppl find it a big deal!!!!
R33F
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Arete made the most valid point so far on page 3 or 4.
There are alot of children out there that have junkie parents, abusive parents and neglectful parents. If a couple (of any description) are willing to love and raise a child, then it should be allowed.
Mrs R33F and I have a fantastic marriage, and close friends of ours have a "same sex" relationship. Why should they not recieve the same benefits as a hetro couple if anything happens to either one of them ?
I'll let you take this one up with her.
There are alot of children out there that have junkie parents, abusive parents and neglectful parents. If a couple (of any description) are willing to love and raise a child, then it should be allowed.
Mrs R33F and I have a fantastic marriage, and close friends of ours have a "same sex" relationship. Why should they not recieve the same benefits as a hetro couple if anything happens to either one of them ?
Mrs R33F is 5ft something, red hair, and comes 17 miles from the Nth Ireland border - with temper to matchRyan said:
I'll let you take this one up with her. 
Dumbellina
Likes Dirt
Those who argue that laws should be their to protect values are misguided - nature conservation laws excepted.
Laws are there to protect individuals and society from harm (amongst other things). It's merely a historical fact that they have been created to enforce societial norms and the prevailing norms have been based in Christian ideas and morals. Society has move on since then.
Laws are there to protect individuals and society from harm (amongst other things). It's merely a historical fact that they have been created to enforce societial norms and the prevailing norms have been based in Christian ideas and morals. Society has move on since then.
Techno Destructo
Riding In Peace
This is getting weird... I'm sharing the same views with S. more and more often...S. said:
demo man
Used to be cool.
turtle muncha said:
amen to that brother!
full rights to gays and lesbians! if they can proove that they are all that they need to be to have children etc. then hell yes they should be alowed to have them!
and marriage, well i think that it is ridiculously unfair to not allow it. it is a deprivation of rights!
kevpun
Likes Bikes
johnny said:
We'll start with the "light hearted" 30% divorced ... meaning I'd be 70% married. Similar to having 2.3 children - understand? Mate?
I'm not defending an institution - I'm defending my view on marriage. Mine!
Johnny, turn gay (if required), get married if you like. I can't stop you if you can convince the powers that be it should be allowed. If it comes to a public vote I'll say don't call it marriage and don't let gay people adopt children.
So "current marriage vows" ... you do get to say whatever you like these days so children in/children out - you can choose if you like.
BTW, as long as you choose to duck and dive from the child adoption aspect of a gay marriage you cannot have an arguement with me as you are avoiding my significant issue.
I feel like shouting so you can understand this instead of reading into my words whatever you feel is necessary to get on your horse with...
To me...
A "marriage" is something a loving man and woman do when they wish to spend their lives together. It also makes them eligible, in some circumstances, to adopt children.
I do not think a gay couple provide the best possible environment for bringing up children.
I am happy for any couple that wish to spend their lives together and feel that they deserve more rights the they probably currently get. But, if they're gay, lesbian, whatever - adopting children and/or calling their relationship a marriage isn't one of them.
Strange how you can state my view clearly in a single paragraph and end it with a "yeah?" then follow with crap like "exclusive hetro club" and "forcing values". It's below you normal standard Johnny. Do you always sink to childish attempts to provoke people when you cannot alter their opinion to mirror yours?
Marriage is sacred to me Johnny - that's why I'm defending it. The fact that you choose to have such a bitter outlook on marriage is entirely your problem. You are the one that gives it so little value. Then your babble on about how you think everyone has the right to marry - why do you even care?
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