Getting more power out of M820 Saints

S

Shredden

Knows his goats
Hi guys,

I have a set of M820 Saint brakes on my Pivot DH bike. I am running the 203mm Ice-Tec rotors front and rear.

I'm not really happy with the power. I weigh about 75kg, and don't feel that they are strong enough. By no means are they unrideable, but I'd like to be able to lock up either wheel as needed with one finger. At the bottom of steep chutes etc I cant really lock up the wheels. And in weird instances where you would want to lock up one wheel (like maybe locking up the front to get around a slow switchback or whatever) they aren't doing it for me. And forget about rolling stoppies on asphalt. They haven't been bled in about a year, but even before that I wasn't really happy with the power.

I find myself getting quite bad handpump (across my first and second knuckles) after 2 or three runs on the DH bike and I suspect this could be a culprit. They don't feel especially spongey, are not contaminated that I know of, and are running stock Shimano M810 pads (non-finned).

Plans for now:

- Bleed.
- Clean rotors thoroughly.
- I have new genuine Shimano pads I can try, but I am wondering if a different Compound would help with getting more power from them - even if they wear a bit faster.

So, to others who have the same brakes:
  • Does this sound like less power than I should expect?
  • Has anyone had luck with other brands of pads?
  • What's the best bleed technique? It seems like there are a lot of ways to do it. What works for who?
Thanks heaps!
 
Z

Zaf

Guest
Shredden said:
Hi guys,
  • Does this sound like less power than I should expect?
  • Has anyone had luck with other brands of pads?
  • What's the best bleed technique? It seems like there are a lot of ways to do it. What works for who?
Thanks heaps!
Click to expand...
Should be heaps of power with no fade at all.
I've used Nukeproof Semi-Sintered pads and they've been solid performers.

Remove pads, insert bleed block (I editted that in, but this should be pretty well standard no matter the bleed process you choose.)
Syringe with 20mL of fluid in them, spanner over bleed port on the caliper and then attach syringe to port. Open the lever and screw in the bleed bucket.
Turn spanner at caliper open half a turn and then push the fluid through the system, you should see the dirty hydraulic fluid emerge into the bleed bucket at the lever.
Close it all up and done.
 
moorey

moorey

call me Mia
@Zaf, I’m not a fan of the bleed down method. Air bubbles rise as you try to push them down and out. Why not push up into the funnel as you’re meant to?
 
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moorey said:
@Zaf, I’m not a fan of the bleed down method. Air bubbles rise as you try to push them down and out. Why not push up into the funnel as you’re meant to?
Click to expand...
I may have explained it poorly, but thought that's what I was getting at.
I might just draw a diagram of what I mean, it'll be clearer.



Open bleed port, depress plunger on syringe, close bleed port, carefully remove funnel and replace cap on lever. Robert is your father's brother.
 
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moorey

moorey

call me Mia
Zaf said:
I may have explained it poorly, but thought that's what I was getting at.
I might just draw a diagram of what I mean, it'll be clearer.



Open bleed port, depress plunger on syringe, close bleed port, carefully remove funnel and replace cap on lever. Robert is your father's brother.
Click to expand...
Yep, sorry, I read badly. As you were.
 
andrew9

andrew9

Likes Dirt
I have three main ideas of what you maybe missing
1st
Make sure you don't have the Shimano Resin pads, they are terrrible on the 4-pots (I don't mind their resin for 2-pots)
2nd
The syringe needs to be held upright, there will always be some air when you fill or connect it, and maybe some waiting inside the caliper bleed nipple, if its held upright the air will go up next to the plunger and not get into the brake
3rd
With full syringe connected, open bleed nipple and very slightly pull the syringe plunger up to suck any air out that may be waiting in the caliper

That being said, if the lever is staying firm and not spongy the only thing it can be is pad or rotor, if the lever is firm then power should be getting to the pad, and the pad is not biting IMO
 
Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Saints should be magical at your weight.

This is what I have set up with my Zees and they are plenty powerful enough for me and I weigh almost 2x you.

1. Sintered pads. Shimano, Clarks VRX and EBC gold (these are on special at Merlin) are excellent. Nukeproof are a step down but still good.

2. Ice-tec floating rotors are so so and have been known to warp and melt. I'm using floating 203mm Lifelines from CRC which are cheap, shed heat and mud well, and don't warp. Hope and the Clarks rotors are also good. Avoid pinned rotors, like the Shimanos, Avids and Maguras.

3. Goodridge braided lines with stainless fittings from tweeks cycles. The stock plastic lines swell when they heat up which is bad mmmkay.

4. Perfect bleed. As already discussed.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
 
Z

Zaf

Guest
andrew9 said:
I just wanted to confirm his plunger is upright before he touches any nipples

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The plunger in pictured upright? Do you mean inverted?
 
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andrew9

andrew9

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Zaf said:
The plunger in pictured upright? Do you mean inverted?

Sent from my Agora 4G Pro using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The plunger needs to be at the top, the "needle" of the syringe would be pointing to the groud. Obviously there is no actual needle on the syringe.
The plunger comment was referring to my level of excitement when maintaining bikes

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andrew9 said:
The plunger needs to be at the top, the "needle" of the syringe would be pointing to the groud. Obviously there is no actual needle on the syringe.
The plunger comment was referring to my level of excitement when maintaining bikes

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
But how is the system supposed to breath properly if you don't have air in it?

(I should probably edit in that that's a joke)
 
R

Rider_of_Bikes

Likes Dirt
Have you gone from sintered pads back to resin pads? As far as I am aware all Saints ship with sintered pads.
If you try to run a resin pad on a disc that has previously ran sintered you will not get much bite out of your pads.

Or just replace with Maguras. I had to remove the 200mm discs and replace with 180s as there was too much bite

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andrew9

andrew9

Likes Dirt
Rider_of_Bikes said:
Have you gone from sintered pads back to resin pads? As far as I am aware all Saints ship with sintered pads.
Click to expand...
He said they'd been replaced, with non-finned pads.
While sintered and resin both come with and without fins, in my experience most with fins are sintered and without are resin.

That's why sintered pads were my #1 idea
 
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