Help - Why are good enduro riders SSSOOO much faster?

[ETSX]

JMcavoy is one committed bloke and I have not seen anyone more committed than he is. Yep he is going for his race of a lifetime and he really has his $hit together family wise, work wise, and bike wise. Also very understanding wife great kids.
It is a fine balance at that level and definately hard to keep the motivation. One he seems to have got right in a short period. It is what it takes to be good is lots of hours.
But seriously all other mere mortals can do is have small goals. If it is dropping a few kg's or riding 8 hours in the week instead of 6 or beating your TT. Also maybe 1 big goal for 3-6 months time have a big race planned to work towards. Keep it real and fun. Do skills days with the local club and it will all come together.

 

[Slowman]

silver bullet

There is a silver bullet! Get a coach, the rest is details.

 

[Matty_P]

Interesting reading.

I'm 36, 187cm & currently 86.5kgs. I was around 92kgs back in January, about a month after my 2nd son was born. I had to change aspects of my life to get my exercise (ie riding) in, but still do everything else - family, work, uni, coffee...

I now ride to work twice a week, 25kms each way. I average one ride a weekend, mostly on the mtb, but if not possible on the roadie.

I don't race, but due to the commuting I find on weekends, especially on the mtb, I'm fit enough to enjoy myself for the few hours I have. Weekend rides are also done early morning to mimimise the impact on the family. My wife is also getting back into shape, so she needs to exercise as well. Looking after 2 boys under 4 is another thing too....

My recommendation would be drop the weight & ride more. A dually may make things easier, but so will not carrying around 10-20kgs.

In regards to technical skills, as others have said riding with those better than you is a great way to improve. A lot of people I ride with are better technically than me, so I do my best to learn from them. One day I'll be able to keep up with them going downhill, along with still leaving them behind on the uphills. One day.

I'll be at the You Yangs at 7:30 tomorrow morning.

Good luck!

Matt

 

[eyes]

the same boat

Mate

I think there are a multitude of people in the same boat as you - I mean looking for 10% improvement.

I found 2 keys that unlocked this problem:

1) At least speak to a coach - they don't need to be there full time, maybe only a couple of visits a year. If they suggest some testing to establish some good training zones - do it. They can suggest a training program that fits into your life - stick to this program. You are reasonably fit so 10% is a modest aim - for a muppet like myself I was looking for 100% (no joke, double - not quite there yet!). If you are commited - your coach can help you acheive anything.

2) Keep track of your training - buy a HR monitor/bike computer and use it every ride. Keep all the other details of your training rides (and social rides as we all know they can get quite competitive). Average speed for your long rides is the key indicator - record it (making sure you computer isn't pausing everytime you stop for a break).

Of course there are other but these were the most important for me - oh... and although a new bike did not directly make me ride faster - it made me enjoy riding alot more (went from hardtail to dually - and yes - it was as good as when I went from rigid to hardtail)

Regards & Good luck

Eyes

 

[Gone Riding]

push your limits

I'm no 'elite' rider but have come a long way since I started endurance riding a couple of years ago... A lot of great ideas and techniques in here no doubt... speaking from personal experience all sorts of physical factors count (technique, training, nutrition, equipment) but I haven't read much in this thread about the mental aspects (maybe I missed it?) but training yourself to have a stronger mind has helped me most and I'm sure that's what helps separate those 'elite' freaks from the rest of us!

Try this stuff in training (maybe not in racing unless you know it works for you). Set goals as you ride, it might be as simple as picking a point half way up a long climb and pushing that little bit harder gear than normal and commit to making that point without changing down or dropping cadence - if you make the point and know you can make another 50m - set that goal, and so on till you know you can't... It's surprising how much further you can push yourself setting small achievable goals that add up to a lot at the end of the day! Obviously, this can be applied to almost any scenario.

Another thing that works for me on longer rides when the mind starts playing games, is to find ways to recognise 'negative' energy sapping thoughts and quickly put them aside... How you do that is up to you, and I'm still working on it but I know it helps a heap when I can do it.

That's my 2 cents worth... good luck!

 

[RED_RACER]

mental issues!

Another thing that works for me on longer rides when the mind starts playing games, is to find ways to recognise 'negative' energy sapping thoughts and quickly put them aside... How you do that is up to you, and I'm still working on it but I know it helps a heap when I can do it.

What worked for me (a couple year back) is to train on a really dodgy bike. What you need in a dodgy bike is:
auto changing gears (grr)
sus - pension forks (really bad!)
canterleaver brakes

When you jump on your race bike, it feels great. You just want to ride it because it is so fun! Then when during a race, the gear cables clog up and your fork lockout sticks on and you get oil on you brakes it will just be like a training ride and you wont feel the pressure to pull the pin!

or you could train on a single speed

 

[Glockster]

wanna go faster lose some weight

its Simple Your racing against people with over 45 Kg's less weight on their bike
than you, Imagine giving them a 45KG Backpack to ride with they
wouldnt pull away as much then.
No use buying superlight race parts when the weight you need to lose is on you.
Power to weight Ratio. lose some weight If you want to go faster. GL with everything.

 

[HillBilly]

At the stage you're at - definitely more time on the bike will reap the biggest rewards. If you can commute to work - it's a win/win. More time and miles and almost no additional time away from family and work.

It worked for me. I'm 38 and started riding 2 1/2 years ago after 15 years of bodily neglect. At 6 foot tall I've gone from a fairly chunky 98 kgs to a pretty lean 76 kgs thanks to commuting (50 km return - 4 days per week). I started commuting a year ago and that's when the biggest change happened for me. I still eat heaps and drink way too much! I don't ride Saturdays because of kid stuff but try to ride most Sunday mornings for a few hours. I average 10 hours and about 250 kms a week.

In terms of enduro times I've gone from 7-8 hours a couple of years ago for 100 km events like the Fling to missing out on my goal of breaking 5 hours at this year's Dirt Works 100 by 3 mins.

Commuting rocks!

 

[d3toid]

Commute training

I have ridden a number of 24s in a team of 4. I found riding to work about 1 hour then 3.5 hours of work. Then 1 hour lunch ride followed by 3.5 hours of work then another hour home made a good match to the the race riding, 1 hour laps with about 3 hours between laps.

 

[24seven]

I'm 6", 78 KG's, 22yrs old and would be interested to know how people go about loosing weight whilst training. This is the lightest I've been in years but I don't seem to be getting any lighter. I eat smart. Or at least I think I do. No junk food or anything like that and I'm not eating crappy ready meals or anything. Just interested if anyone has a any ideas/tips?

 

[m_g]

I'm 6", 78 KG's, 22yrs old QUOTE]

how much do you want to lose? 78 kgs for 6 foot is in the healthy range...

http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm

 

[mtb1611]

I'm 6", 78 KG's, 22yrs old QUOTE]

how much do you want to lose? 78 kgs for 6 foot is in the healthy range...

http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm

Mate no offence but those charts are an utter waste of time, and an unnecessay cause for concern for people trying to lose weight. They totally discount all of the variables involved between body types, frames and metabolisms and are best ignored. IMHO!

I have noticed throughout this thread a school of thought that advocates doing a 4 and 2 hour ride per week, as opposed to 6 one hour rides. When you've got a full time demenading job and a family it isn't always possible to tailor the time to suit you. Often it's a struggle to find one hour in a day to exercise in any way shape or form; particularly when kids get older and take up sports of their own.
There's been some fantastic advice given hee, but keep in mind the fact that you're doing this for enjoyment and fitness. As much as is possible you need to customise your training so that it doesn't overtake your life and interfere with family commitments. This CAN be done but quite often entails some major lifestyle changes. The thought of getting up at 5:30am in the middle of winter to ride before work was something I would never have even contemplated prior to becoming a parent, however now it's pretty much the only time of day (on weekdays at least) that I get to ride or go to the gym.

It's difficult to comprehend and appreciate the demands that parenting places upon one's time, until you're actually in the situation. Certainly not criticising the advice that's been provided, just something to think about.

 

[m_g]

..............

 

[fezi]

shed the kg's

I used to be a recreational rider at about 105kg and 6'3". I could smash out a decent pace for maybe an hour. Over the last 4-5 years I've got more intrested in racing endurance races and this decided to go a lot harder at the training side. Christmas day I was 98kg and set the goal of a race weight of 88kg for the BMC100 (my 1st 100km race).

One important aspect you need to use is setting goals. Small goals/big goals whatever. Its something to aim for. I missed my last goal due to work commitments (finishing the dirt works100) But I was on track and only missed it due to another goal (career).

Just set the next goals Mogo 100km and 84kg. Training started 3 weeks ago.

 

[mtb1611]

no, theyre not a waste of time, otherwise nutritionists, trainers, workplaces and insurance companies wouldnt use them...that one is just an example and gives plenty of room for variables..it has three different graphs for different frames, and has a wide spread of suggested weights for each height...I wouldnt say they discount the variables you mention...

Metabolism has nothing to do with a healthy weight-if youre fat, youre fat, whether you have a fast or slow metabolism...At the end of the day, if you are looking to lose weight, you need to have a realistic target, and thats what the tables do...

Metabolism has nothing to do with a healthy weight? Hmmm, I dunno 'bout that...... If you've selected a target weight or weight range your metabolism can certainly determine not only the ease with with you reach it, but also the modifications to your diet you should make in order to achieve it.

Certain people WILL fall into the healthy weight ranges as prescribed by the charts, however you will find many examples of healthy and fit individuals who will be over- or underweight according to said charts. That's too wide a margin of error IMO for them to be considered overly relaible.

 

[m_g]

Metabolism has nothing to do with a healthy weight? Hmmm, I dunno 'bout that...... If you've selected a target weight or weight range your metabolism can certainly determine not only the ease with with you reach it, but also the modifications to your diet you should make in order to achieve it.

Certain people WILL fall into the healthy weight ranges as prescribed by the charts, however you will find many examples of healthy and fit individuals who will be over- or underweight according to said charts. That's too wide a margin of error IMO for them to be considered overly relaible.

of course metabolism affects HOW you can achieve a weight loss...I thought you were suggesting that your own healthy weight should give consideration to your metabolism eg. "my metabolisms slow, so if Im 50 kg overweight, Im sweet"

As for the charts...well,Im tired-lets just disagree...but just for fun, do you have an example of one of these many fit individuals who are outside the prescribed ranges?

 

[mtb1611]

of course metabolism affects HOW you can achieve a weight loss...I thought you were suggesting that your own healthy weight should give consideration to your metabolism eg. "my metabolisms slow, so if Im 50 kg overweight, Im sweet"

As for the charts...well,Im tired-lets just disagree...but just for fun, do you have an example of one of these many fit individuals who are outside the prescribed ranges?

No that's certainly not what I meant re the meabolism.

An example? Yeah, me

 

[Timbers]

At the end of the day you can talk over figures and so called facts but in my opinion it all comes down to grey matter or a lack of, whoever can shut out the pain and get on with the job will do the best not where you fit into some random height/weight chart, in the first Anaconda round i came sixth in solo at "6,2" 89 kg's then from a lot of training and then being sick for two weeks did the second round at 85 kg's and came ninth in solo, granted I had a minor mechanical and had been sick prior to the event but my point being weight or power to weight ratio is not the be all end all as many cyclist's believe it is, just suck it up, hi the course hard and deal with the pain

 

[Matty_P]

At the end of the day you can talk over figures and so called facts but in my opinion it all comes down to grey matter or a lack of, whoever can shut out the pain and get on with the job will do the best not where you fit into some random height/weight chart, in the first Anaconda round i came sixth in solo at "6,2" 89 kg's then from a lot of training and then being sick for two weeks did the second round at 85 kg's and came ninth in solo, granted I had a minor mechanical and had been sick prior to the event but my point being weight or power to weight ratio is not the be all end all as many cyclist's believe it is, just suck it up, hi the course hard and deal with the pain

I reckon carrying another 10-15kgs would have made things more interesting for you ...

 

[mtb1611]

At the end of the day you can talk over figures and so called facts but in my opinion it all comes down to grey matter or a lack of, whoever can shut out the pain and get on with the job will do the best not where you fit into some random height/weight chart

Agreed 100%. The significance of mental strength and the ability to push through pain barriers cannot be underestimated in ANY endurance sport.