Illicit Industries Hub and Headset

[toodles]

if i want to save 80 grams of weight ill take a dump before i ride Lol

Thanks for your input. No one cares.

 

[No Skid Marks]

There's a full of shit joke there but I'll leave it.
Both Hub and Headset look great.

 

[Frantic_on_manik]

O come on it was just a joke didn't mean to make anyone cranky

 

[Binaural]

O come on it was just a joke didn't mean to make anyone cranky

No one's cranky, they just don't care.

 

[arpit]

Thanks for your input. No one cares.

I care. It's certainly a cheaper way of saving weight than buying an expensive headset. It could be easier than replacing your headset too, depending on what you ate last night.

 

[udi]

I wanted to know what type of bearings the hub used. A common mistake is for bicycle parts companies to use full complement bearings in 'spinning' situations like bottom brackets. This makes for a very strong device, but as soon as a grain of dirt works itself in, it acts as an abrasive, and can't be pushed out. The demise of the device becomes imminent.

Do you just try to sound smart or something? Most of us realise this, it has been discussed before, and I don't think anyone apart from raceface (in their infinite wisdom) do this. Truvativ have done it in the past also, but neither company is known for their long lasting BB bearings.

All cartridge hubs i've pulled apart (from cheap to the peak of the pyramid) have had cartridge bearings with retainers, so I would assume the illicit is no exception. I was hinting that they might not be worth the bloated pricetag, but to assume they don't have a clue is going a bit far.

Cheers,
Udi

 

[toodles]

I care. It's certainly a cheaper way of saving weight than buying an expensive headset. It could be easier than replacing your headset too, depending on what you ate last night.

Yeah that's great. Until you actually care about your bike's weight. It was funny the first time I heard the old "i could shit before a ride and lose that much weight" argument. But now I think people who say that are daft. In the end they're picking up another bike in the carpark and going "damn that thing is light - how'd you get it so light?" SUM TOTAL people. 20 grams here and there and your bike weighs 2-3 kilos less than the other guys. Yes I know 20 grams in a hub is nothing but 20 grams per component is a lot.

 

[Quintin]

I care. It's certainly a cheaper way of saving weight than buying an expensive headset. It could be easier than replacing your headset too, depending on what you ate last night.

but if your bike is also 80 grams lighter and you log 80 grams, you are collectively 160 grams lighter.

 

[arpit]

Do you just try to sound smart or something?

I sure as hell don't try and sound dumb.

Most of us realise this, it has been discussed before, and I don't think anyone apart from raceface (in their infinite wisdom) do this. Truvativ have done it in the past also, but neither company is known for their long lasting BB bearings.

SO you acknowledge that major manufacturers have done this?

All cartridge hubs i've pulled apart (from cheap to the peak of the pyramid) have had cartridge bearings with retainers, so I would assume the illicit is no exception.

That's nice, but I was interested in reality, not Udi's assumptions.

but to assume they don't have a clue is going a bit far.

I'm not assuming anything, unlike yourself. I merely want to know what of bearings they use.

 

[S.]

I sure as hell don't try and sound dumb.


SO you acknowledge that major manufacturers have done this?



That's nice, but I was interested in reality, not Udi's assumptions.


I'm not assuming anything, unlike yourself. I merely want to know what of bearings they use.

1. For a law student I thought you'd be better at interpreting what he meant.

2. Yes but as he said, nobody has done it on hubs. Stop trying to construct an argument out of totally irrelevant "examples".

3 & 4. You made the assumption that in spite of all prior trends with hubs, that Illicit might for some reason deviate from what every single other hub has ever used in order to utilise something that doesn't suit the priority on consistently smooth running and high RPM, low radial load (relatively speaking) that front hubs see that BBs specifically do not, based on the fact that a pair of BB manufacturers have done it.

 

[udi]

Thanks S.

Maybe banning the sucker was a bit harsh... i'll guess that was for something else.

 

[Cave Dweller]

The onepointfive headset that i've been using for ages rocks.. (on the Splinter). The top stack height is 6mm on the proto which rocks... they understand when the simple things work well and do a really noice job going about it.

When will the zero stack headset be avaliable, and how much will it cost??

 

[Grip]

Maybe banning the sucker was a bit harsh... i'll guess that was for something else.

Yep... it was but we would have stuck up for you anyway, Udi.

 

[Frantic_on_manik]

why dont people use roller bearings in hubs and frame pivots dont they have better weight distrubution and longer lives than ball bearings? someone let me know

 

[dazz]

why dont people use roller bearings in hubs and frame pivots dont they have better weight distrubution and longer lives than ball bearings? someone let me know

You mean needle roller bearings? Axial loading is the problem there. You need to take care of the side loads that can occur with wheel bearings & frame pivots.
If you mean taper roller bearings, as used in automotive wheel bearings then yes they would work & be urber strong, but there are a couple of reasons for not using them that I can see:
1 - A standard tapered roller bearing to suit 20mm shaft (front hub for example) starts at 97g, so would you like 0.2kg of bearings in your front hub??
2 - These style of bearings require careful assembly, too loose & you have play, too tight & you have a stiff bearing. So they would be a pain in the ass for something like a front hub that is constantly being removed.

Some lightweight taper roller bearings would be perfect for the headset though, a beefy head tube to suit a 1 1/8" ID bearing & wham! you have zero stack height & no need for the stupid headset arrangement everything uses at the moment. Unfortunately 'off the shelf' bearings in the right size weigh in at 220 grams each. (skf online brg cat)

 

[Frantic_on_manik]

no i mean straight roller bearings they way i was looking at a diagram the other day it seemed like they would be perfect for alll mtb applications every one all ways seems to be bitching about how all the stress is loaded on to one or to BB leading to short lives it seems to me that the roller bearings seem to have a much snugger fit into the bearing assembly thus making for much better load bearing capabilities i see your point however in regards to wheelsets but for frame pivots i think they would be ideal

 

[S.]

no i mean straight roller bearings they way i was looking at a diagram the other day it seemed like they would be perfect for alll mtb applications every one all ways seems to be bitching about how all the stress is loaded on to one or to BB leading to short lives it seems to me that the roller bearings seem to have a much snugger fit into the bearing assembly thus making for much better load bearing capabilities i see your point however in regards to wheelsets but for frame pivots i think they would be ideal

You've just won some free characters: .,'":;/? and so forth. Feel free to use them whenever you like!

Anyway BB bearings are notoriously small for the loads they have to deal with, which is why Shimano went to the outboard bearing thing. Front hub bearings seem to be much harder to kill, as well as needing to cope with much bigger thrust (side) loads which roller bearings are no good at (unless you use the tapered ones, but they're heavy). Ye olde ball bearing is pretty much the best thing for the job.
As far as frame pivots go, there are a few frames that already use roller bearings - Turner DHRs, PDC 825/Solaris, GT DHi, and I'm sure plenty of other assorted boutique frames.

 

[Frantic_on_manik]

So the side "thrust loads" are from riding or landing on angles like this? \\ or like this // , which means the problem could be solved by keeping your wheels in the || position. That doesn't sound like much fun ; this is a completly usless post but i won these "punctuation elves" fair and square. so i suppose i can misuse them whenever right?

 

[scratchy]

Yup, you're now entitled to use punctuation whenever you feel like it. Otherwise you're posts read like shit and you're actually asking some sensible questions.

 

[Crigsta]

Back to the topic of discussion then.

I have been running the illicit front 20mm hub on my bike for the past 4 months and have nothing but praise for it. It rolls soo smooth and is super stiff. It also looks beautiful. I picked mine up quite a bit cheaper from a bike shop that didnt appreciate its value. I think i payed like $180 for it which was a steal.