It Makes Me Sooooo Maaaaad!!!!!!

[rimas]

no, i am saying, if you cannot provide for a child it is irresponsible to have one.

It takes two to tango...

 

[Cave Dweller]

I'm guessing it's calculated based on probable income loss over x years... Or something like that.

Got it in one!!

50 years of sole parent payements + 25 years of pension payements = 1.4mill

Robots!

Im working on it right now.........

This stuff is happening everywhere. Mammoth mountain got closed down in the states becasue some gumby crashed and sued. Why can't people accept the risks if you ride!!!!

I went riding at Lithgow a few weeks ago and some guys that came along started talking about why they had to pay the $5 to use the track. I told them it was becasue it was on private land. They then proceeded to say that because they are made to pay that they could sue if they got injured. Needless to say i told them to accept responsibility for there own actions and to not ride the tarck if they were not prepared to. It is fuckers like this that ruin the whole sport for everyone

 

[johnny]

Can't hold a job but is still able to have a root and get pregnant.

.

Duuuuuude

Matt you are much smarter than this comment makes you sound.

Do you think those with Downs Syndrome have sex? Of course they do, it's probably one of the easiest things for a human to do!!? What about the fact that she has frontal lobe damage (frontal lobe is where most of the executive decision making process are held) so therefore she's going to make bad decisions (whether you know what the frontal lobe does or not, the girl has brain damage!!).

What if she was raped? What if her problem is degenerative and she fell pregnant before it got too bad? And the premise of your statement is that it's easier to hold a job than root and fall pregnant. I think there's a mountain of women in lower economic status areas that can prove that wrong! If you were actually saying that she shouldn't fall pregnant if she's not economically viable, what if her husband has left her with the kid? What if it was an unplanned pregnancy?

Too many assumptions with too little information.

If she'd hurt herself doing something in a bank (remember she wasn't actually doing anything stupid, she just had a stack on a bike ON A BIKE TRACK NO LESS) or insurance agancy and sued them for $$$, you'd all probably be cheering her!

 

[johnny]

Yes, it pisses me off when people don't take into account the risks nor some degree of responsibility. However, you can't stop people being people. I've done plenty of risky things and having been lucky have managed to get away with it so far........

.

Goddamnit! You beat me to it

 

[Cave Dweller]

Johhny,

What about the resposibility of the parents. The girl was 13, a child according to you, unable to make informed decesions, shouldn't she have been supervised. Was she wearing a helmet, who's bike was it etc etc?

If the club had the ramp fensed of she would still have probably tried to hit it. If they fensed the whole track she might not have hit it. But what then, the kids will probably be trying to climb the fence to get in to ride the track and someone will fall from the fense and sue.

Sorry mate, i know what your trying to say but i think it's bullshit, there are consequences to everything in life and people just need to accept the outcomes and STOP FUCKING SUEING!!!!!!!!

 

[Cave Dweller]

Duuuuuude

Matt you are much smarter than this comment makes you sound.

Yeh, it was a tounge in check statement, not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[protecon]

"However, Justice Dunford reduced the payout by 20 per cent because he said Ms Rigby had known of a previous accident at the track only a few years earlier where a man had died."

How much compensation did the guy who died get?

 

[Techno Destructo]

I'd direct your venom elsewhere than from the girl. I imagine many of you would not be as holier than thou if you ended up in her predicament. I'd look at the reasons allowing the law suit and why they exist in our society first.

tripmitz, I applaud you for approaching this topic so level-headed, but when the fault is CLEARLY due to the stupidity of the victim, I have trouble having any sympathy. This smacks of the lawsuit where the person dove into the water at Bondi Beach and hit the sand bottom.

If this girl was completely innocent from contributing to the situation that put her there, I would whole-heartedly agree with the settlement that was reached.

But she CHOSE to do a stupid act where she was already aware that a previous fatality had occured. (And I would LOVE to know if she was wearing a helmet or not....).

So unfortunately, others have to pay. And not just the council and the BMX club, but all of society, since it's due to the continuing over-the-top litigation intiated by people who think that whatever stupid act they do, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault, that it has become so hard for society to function because we're scared to death of being sued, and everything either costs so much for insurance or simply can't continue because of the self-same costs.

Yes, I support free-health care, but suing individual entities for this fiasco is rediculous.

In 1997, I was living at Whistler ski resort in Canada. I did a cliff jump on my snowboard that went wrong. It was a 40+ foot cliff, with a decent sloped landing, but there was a boulder just underneath the snow that wasn't detected by earlier attempts to "clear" the landing. I hit that boulder, split my pelvis in half, dislocated my hip, and punched a hole so large in me that I nearly died of blood loss before they got me to the clinic at the bottom.

I spent weeks in the hospital, and nearly a year in wheelchair and crutches. I NEVER considered suing the mountain for their lack of:
a: Putting a fence across the top of the cliff preventing me from jumping off
b: Checking the landing for anything that might hurt people
c: Putting up signs that state that cliff jumping is dangerous and prohibited

Why? Because is was MY decision. And I take responsibility for my actions.

I've been experiencing pain from my hip and pelvis since that day, and running as well as any impact sports are very painful to me now. Heck, I can't even sit comfortably on hard chairs because my pelvis has healed slightly shifted.

But it was MY choice. And I live with it. That's why I have no sympathy for this girl.

 

[dmwill]

In the ABC article it says that a friend 'dared her' to take on the jump.

Maybe next time my mate tells me to jump off a cliff, I will...then I can sue someone.

Ok, she has taken legal action and won, which is worth it considering that she has missed out on a great life.

But in a way it is pathetic, It's clearly obvious that any BMX track regardless of size is dangerous...and there will be accidents. A few years back a guy here in Perth dived into the water at the beach and paralised himself...ended up making a million or so...It's pretty bloody obvious that you don't dive into the beach, no matter how experienced or what your judement is like. Same goes for a BMX track...weather you are capable or not of doing a jump..you have to be responsible for you own actions.

It is unfortunate...but that's the way life is.

 

[johnny]

tripmitz, I applaud you for approaching this topic so level-headed, but when the fault is CLEARLY due to the stupidity of the victim, Stupidity!!?? What do you mean? She was riding a bike on a bike track! I don't see what's so stupid about that, although I am tipping that she didn't have a lid on...... I have trouble having any sympathy. This smacks of the lawsuit where the person dove into the water at Bondi Beach and hit the sand bottom.

If this girl was completely innocent from contributing to the situation that put her there, I would whole-heartedly agree with the settlement that was reached.

But she CHOSE to do a stupid act where she was already aware that a previous fatality had occured. (And I would LOVE to know if she was wearing a helmet or not....).

So unfortunately, others have to pay. And not just the council and the BMX club, but all of society, since it's due to the continuing over-the-top litigation intiated by people who think that whatever stupid act they do, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault, that it has become so hard for society to function because we're scared to death of being sued, and everything either costs so much for insurance or simply can't continue because of the self-same costs. It's the sueing that's the problem here, not the girls actions. It's just one of those unfortunate situations where somebody needs help. They shouldn't have to sue to get the help they need. Remember, she was riding a bike on a bike track, something we all do regularly.

Yes, I support free-health care, but suing individual entities for this fiasco is rediculous.

In 1997, I was living at Whistler ski resort in Canada. I did a cliff jump on my snowboard that went wrong. It was a 40+ foot cliff, with a decent sloped landing, but there was a boulder just underneath the snow that wasn't detected by earlier attempts to "clear" the landing. I hit that boulder, split my pelvis in half, dislocated my hip, and punched a hole so large in me that I nearly died of blood loss before they got me to the clinic at the bottom.

I spent weeks in the hospital, and nearly a year in wheelchair and crutches. I NEVER considered suing the mountain for their lack of:
a: Putting a fence across the top of the cliff preventing me from jumping off
b: Checking the landing for anything that might hurt people
c: Putting up signs that state that cliff jumping is dangerous and prohibited

Why? Because is was MY decision. And I take responsibility for my actions.

I've been experiencing pain from my hip and pelvis since that day, and running as well as any impact sports are very painful to me now. Heck, I can't even sit comfortably on hard chairs because my pelvis has healed slightly shifted.

But it was MY choice. And I live with it. That's why I have no sympathy for this girl.

How old were you when you did this? Does this stop you from earning a living? Remember the girl may not be able to support herself now, what's she supposed to do, starve to death? Once again, it's not her, the track or the councils fault. She fell off her bike whilst on a bike track, not swimming at a beach whilst drunk or train surfing or anything even illegal.

 

[Techno Destructo]

So Johnny... do you agree with the settlement that was reached? Was justice done?

Or was there a better solution?

And what age does someone have to be before they're responsible for their own actions? What about the parents? Didn't they have some kind of responsiblity to be supervising their child? Or at least, teaching them basic common sense and safety?

I went to go climbing a month ago at the City Crag indoor climbing gym on Kent Street in Sydney.

It was permanently shut down. Couldn't afford the insurance costs. Story of our society nowadays...

*EDIT*
Yes, I suppose calling a 13 year old girl's actions at a BMX track stupid is unwarranted. But IN NO WAY is it the fault of the Council or the BMX track. I suppose "misjudgement" would be more appropriate. I suppose the idea of suing individual entities is where I'm getting my irritation from.

And no... she shouldn't starve to death. Her family should take care of her, and if Australia had half-assed free medical coverage, then that should be enough. Hell... sue the Liberal government for fucking up the health scheme! There's an idea!

 

[ona rampage]

I agree with Techno...
I broke a wrist riding at Sydney Uni (no-where near as bad as Techno's injury but...jesus!) doing a jump there? Should I sue the uni for no fences? I don't think so, and never even considered doing so.
Basically, I was doing something stupid, and trespassing really. End of story, accept liability for your actions.
OK, she was a young girl, but 13, not 3...I am pretty sure most 13 yo know what is liable to end in tears and what isn't. And the question of parental supervision definitely needs to be looked at; why aren't the parents being sued for letting their kid run rampant.

 

[johnny]

Johhny,

What about the resposibility of the parents. The girl was 13, a child according to you Well not only me, but the law, and society in general....do you not think a 13 year old is a child?, unable to make informed decesions, shouldn't she have been supervised Did your parents supervise you every time you left the house until you were 16? Of course not, it's a bit harsh to make parents responsible for every action their child makes. Was she wearing a helmet That's an important question, who's bike was it But that's irrelevant etc etc?

If the club had the ramp fensed of she would still have probably tried to hit it. If they fensed the whole track she might not have hit it. But what then, the kids will probably be trying to climb the fence to get in to ride the track and someone will fall from the fense and sue.

Sorry mate, i know what your trying to say but i think it's bullshit, there are consequences to everything in life and people just need to accept the outcomes and STOP FUCKING SUEING!!!!!!!!

Stop sueing is the key here. YOU CANNOT EXPECT THE IRRESPONSIBLE TO BE RESPONSIBLE. It's just like saying to a 1st year economics student "Here's AMP, now don't make any bad decisions in running it because you have to be responsible for your actions". Clearly this is preposterous, the student doesn't have the knowledge, skills or faculties to make these decisions. YOU CANNOT EXPECT KIDS TO BE AS RESPONSIBLE AS AN ADULT, they are kids because they aren't adults yet. What if it was a 10 or 8 year old, would you say that they should be responsible for thier actions? Should the 8 year old that runs out infront of the car to catch his ball be told "well it was your decision, it's your problem". It's too easy to say "it's your problem", I mean what do you suggest the woman do now, starve to death? She was a 13 year old girl who fell off her bike whilst riding on a BMX track FFS, it's not that an absurd thing to happen Also, do you think that a persons life should be completely fucked for making one bad decision? that's a really harsh line your taking, the type that I would expect from a liberal/republican voter (jks)

If there were practicle structures in place to help people like this, there would be no need to sue anyone.

 

[toodles]

Bullshit - someone dared her to do it. You don't get dared to do something that is easy, there's a risk involved. Maybe the track should have been fenced off - the jumps could be AA standard or something. I reckon the club did contribute by not having restricted access to the area. But IMO, the payment should be split between ALL responsible parties. The girl firstly, then her parents, her friend, the BMX track and the council.

She took a risk and maybe miscalculated what the potential outcomes were - perhaps signposting might have swayed her, perhaps not. But she is not the innocent victim - she contributed the most to this mishap. If anything, all of the BMX riders in the area from wannabe pros to little groms, who now risk losing their track or paying increased insurance and rego fees are the victims here.

A better health system would go a long way to providing a solution to these kind of things. Maybe private disability insurance should be compulsory?

 

[Techno Destructo]

..........

So Johnny... do you agree with the settlement that was reached? Was justice done?

Or was there a better solution?

And what age does someone have to be before they're responsible for their own actions?

 

[Techno Destructo]

If anything, all of the BMX riders in the area from wannabe pros to little groms, who now risk losing their track or paying increased insurance and rego fees are the victims here.

Exactly. The BMX club in question is dead meat. No WAY can a recreational club like that survive being sued for that much. That ruins it for everyone involved in the club and everyone planning or thinking about joining it and getting involved in BMX racing at Albion Park.

And let's look at all the other BMX clubs now. I wonder what their insurance premiums are going to look like from now on? I know the Manly-Warringah BMX club BARELY survives with the costs it has to bear to run their club and track. This may very well be the final nail in the coffin.

I wonder if the insurance premiums are kicked up for MTB and road bike events and clubs now as well?

If a BMX club shuts down, how much do you wanna bet that the track will be sold/destroyed for insurance reasons as well?

 

[johnny]

So Johnny... do you agree with the settlement that was reached? Was justice done? No:

I'm not saying that the BMX club or council should be held responsible

Or was there a better solution? Yes:

Surely in this day and age we could have a social support system in place that cares for people with such unfortunate circumstances. That has to be better than the adversarial situation which ensures that blame can/will be laid somewhere

.


And what age does someone have to be before they're responsible for their own actions? What about the parents? Didn't they have some kind of responsiblity to be supervising their child? Or at least, teaching them basic common sense and safety? Well the law states two ages: 16 and 18. These are the laws that state ages of personal responsiblity and criminal responsiblity. As for the parents thing, I'm still undecided with that. My parents tried well over and above to teach me responsibility, I still snuck out of mates houses and went walking train lines with cans of spraypaint. You can't tie kids up at night. But it's a hard question, because some parents are quite obviously negligent in this area, so I don't know the answer to that one. I'm not sure if you can teach some one common sense though

I went to go climbing a month ago at the City Crag indoor climbing gym on Kent Street in Sydney.

It was permanently shut down. Couldn't afford the insurance costs. Story of our society nowadays...

*EDIT*
Yes, I suppose calling a 13 year old girl's actions at a BMX track stupid is unwarranted. But IN NO WAY is it the fault of the Council or the BMX track. I suppose "misjudgement" would be more appropriate. I suppose the idea of suing individual entities is where I'm getting my irritation from.

And no... she shouldn't starve to death. Her family should take care of her, and if Australia had half-assed free medical coverage, then that should be enough. Hell... sue the Liberal government for fucking up the health scheme! There's an idea!

That's EXACTLY what I'm arguing here. The girl was riding a bike on a bike track, not shooting up battery acid whilst hanging out of a train door! If there was a structure for injuries (deemed to be due not out of negligence [negligence = not wearing helmets, riding where you shouldn't, swimming pissed, train surfing etc.] many things of this nature eg: drinking, forcing open train doors etc. require strength or other attributes a child doesn't yet possess) and the life long problems caused, there would be no need for the litigeous society we live in. The problem IS NOT THE PERSON, IT'S THE SYSTEM/CULTURE WE LIVE IN. The system and culture allows for idiots to sue when doing reckless things at an age when they understand the repercussions of their actions and also allows us to say FUCK YOU to some one who does have a legitimate claim to support. If we worked as a mutually supporting team we wouldn't have idiots sueing (for they wouldn't burdon the team with their faliures) or people needing help through the legal system (for the health system would account for this).

Change the culture, fix the problem. We can build a bomb that destroys everything, yet we can't even work/live cohesively within our own culture. We short change ourselves into living in a deficient society because we can't see past our own noses and do what's best FOR US.

I know that this is a bit too airy fairy and big picture in the respect of this topic, but I'm just a little bit dismayed at the attitude of some people in this thread toward a little girl who fell off her bike. Compassion, empathy, community fellas, look 'em up!

 

[johnny]

Bullshit - someone dared her to do it. You don't get dared to do something that is easy, there's a risk involved. Maybe the track should have been fenced off - the jumps could be AA standard or something. I reckon the club did contribute by not having restricted access to the area. But IMO, the payment should be split between ALL responsible parties. The girl firstly, then her parents, her friend, the BMX track and the council.

She took a risk and maybe miscalculated what the potential outcomes were - perhaps signposting might have swayed her, perhaps not. But she is not the innocent victim - she contributed the most to this mishap. If anything, all of the BMX riders in the area from wannabe pros to little groms, who now risk losing their track or paying increased insurance and rego fees are the victims here.

A better health system would go a long way to providing a solution to these kind of things. Maybe private disability insurance should be compulsory?

Maybe but, she was riding a bike on a bike track! She wasn't doing anything illegal or absurd. She just bit off more than she could chew. OK, if she'd broken her wrist or got concussion she'd have no real reason to bitch, but the girl has damage to her frontal lobe, this fucks her for life.

You say that her friend that dared her should be responsible. But isn't that exactly the same thing as sueing the bike track? Her friend didn't hit the jump, her friend didn't push her, why should she be held responsible for somebody elses actions? All the girl did was make a dare/all the BMX park did was provide her the jump. The rider wasn't forced to take the dare/the rider wasn't forced to ride the jump.

I agree with what you are saying about the health insurance issue. This would fix the problem before it starts.

I think most people are a little more relentless and harsh with their opinions here because this issue affects them. Would this have even been posted if it was an issue regarding sheep dip or low doorways in telephone exchanges? I think not

Change the system and you will no longer risk park closures or brain damaged people having to fend for themselves.

 

[tripmitz]

Right on johnny.

Dismayed and embaressed.

Quote:
I know that this is a bit too airy fairy and big picture in the respect of this topic, but I'm just a little bit dismayed at the attitude of some people in this thread toward a little girl who fell off her bike. Compassion, empathy, community fellas, look 'em up!

 

[Colonel]

I've been following this thread with interest (we've been talking about it at work all day), one of my mates who lives in Melborne now was involved in racing there back in the day. Someone asked about the bloke that died on the same track before hand, here's my mates recollection of it:

I should also note that in 1995 the first jump was difficult for the younger and inexperienced riders and has been changed to be more forgiving. It was a case of the track committee making the jump to big and to lippy for it's position. A small roll-over instead of a large double, as was the case, now exists. The guy who died was riding a 27" road bike, pissed as a fart on Christmas Day. Went as fast as he could down the start hill and ploughed into a light pole 20' off the track head first, no helmet.

Personaly I can somewhat agree with Johnny, however I reckon the girl that dared her to give it a go should have been the target of the lawsuit. In this case the judge rulled that a fence would have reduced the chance of injury, I disagree. These kids new the jump was tough and a fence would have only added to the prestige of taking the dare on. After all kids still jump chain mesh fences with barbed wire to get into electrical substations, there needs to be a limit as to what is considered reasonable means of ensuring public saftey. Otherwise things like skateparks and BMX tracks will be a thing of the past.

My 2 bobs.