Kids and Religion

[Hamsta]

SNIP i think if more people cared about other people the world would be a much better place, cause at the moment all i seem to bump into are selfish f*ckwits..

Well, it seems as though there are a lot of recent examples of people demonstrating that they care about the welfare and wellbeing of others due to floods, cyclone and fires, whether or not inspired by religion. Whatever motivates people to help isn't really important, it is the fact that they are prepared to assist

Interestingly, my girlfriends sister is a freakishly 'gifted' mathematician. She has come to the conclusion that mathematics/science/biology can only explain 99.9% of Life As We Know/Experience it. The other 0.1% she is not so sure of and is prepared to keep an open mind, and that 0.1% frustrates her no end if we get her started on the topic

 

[thecat]

Treat any "true story" that starts with the word "apparently" with a bit of skepticism


While kellogg raved zealously against masturbation, setting up some bizarre masturbation rehabilitation methods and is often quoted as inventing corn flakes as a weapon against the twin evils of masturbation and constipation I'm not sure if that was ever his announced intention.

 

[Binaural]

Can I ask what compels so many of you to believe that atheism is NOT an ideology? Surely it is as much a "religion" as any. What many in this thread have demonstrated are its;

i. Dogmas.
ii. Prejudices.
iii. Pretensions to metanarrative or "ultimate truth".

What a boneheaded post, but I could have guessed that from the red highlighting and upsizing even if I hadn't read it. Atheism is not an ideology, but the lack of one. Is lack of belief in a god a dogma? Of course not, believing in god regardless of the evidence is a dogma. Is atheism predjudiced? It is the opposite of prejudiced - all religions are weighed equally for their liklihood of truth. As far as "metanarrative", atheists will generally leave that to the fabulists who can be free to imagine a deity to their liking. But if you want a narrative that is explains the bulk of why we're here and is consistent and meaningful, try getting to grips with the story of evolution.

To the OP: the nature of religion is that it has to get them young. There is a very strong correlation with being indoctrinated in a particular religion early on and persistent belief when older. Next to nobody objectively converts to another religion when they're older if they never got it poured all over them while young. Make sure that if your daughter continues with the classes, that she is aware they are stories that are important to our culture, but not to be taken literally or as truth.

But don't worry too much - if you're not raising her in a religious household, there's not really much chance she will pick up harmful ideas anyway. Without reinforcement, she will likely come to realize that scripture classes etc are just what they seem to be, stories which sometimes have a moral worth understanding.

 

[Hamsta]

So that explains Sanitarium Skippy Cornflakes..........

a bowl a day keeps the hands at bay

 

[for those about to rock]

I have been to both Catholic primary and secondary schools and despite being taught scripture, we were in no way pressured to believe in it. I chose to, as I both believe an have been raised to believe. That, of course it irrelevant.

My unbiased opinion is that you should be alarmed at the fact that they, the school, is teaching you child about religion, and not just about its existence. Even though I am all for teaching of religious scriptures, I also feel that it should be reserved for select schools and not taught to those who have chosen not to attend these schools.

The pictures you posted of the things she was getting sent home even alarmed me as I have never received such items at either of my Catholic schools. The only stuff I have ever been involuntarily given is from the Jahova's, which I choose not to read, not because they teach different principals, but because I have better ways to both waste my time and learn about religion than from some cheesy pamphlet.

At a higher secondary level at the Catholic school I attended, the compulsory religious education subject turned from studying the Bible to learning ethics and morality without much mention of God at all.

From my religious point of view, if you do not wish you kid to learn about religion, then contact the school, which has been mentioned, but also refrain from having her baptised (or any other initiatory ritual). I don't believe religious propaganda should be given to anyone, let alone naive children. I can only speak from my own experiences, but I can only imagine that the school, religious or one that offers teaching of scripture, would only teach the most basic of Biblical stories and religious concepts not promote and force the child to believe and join a religion.

Whilst you still can, if you choose, teach your kid yourself about what religion means to you, which I assume you feel is nothing more than a load of bull, and tell them your own beliefs whilst they are still impressionable. They may grow up to wish to join a religion, which I feel you shouldn't hamper, it is ultimately their choice, but at such a young age, it is not a choice to be made by the kid. My parents wanted me to be a part of a religion and I have grown up to accept religion. If you teach them that religion is false, I am sure they will believe the same.

All of what I have said may not be helpful, I am still relatively a child myself, let alone have a kid beginning school.

I bid you good luck with your predicament, and trust you will make the right decision for your child.

EDIT: Binaural pretty much said what I was trying to say but in fewer, less confusing, words.

 

[hach_bee]

Just my thoughts:

Some religions teach really good moral foundations and strong communities. I went to both catholic and public primary AND high schools. I personally preferred the public because I found the schools I went to focussed more on the learning when they weren't wasting a couple of hours a week organising masses that were held every other week.

However, in my public primary school, I do recall we used to have a compulsory 1hr RE lesson a week, and only if it was specifically requested by parents were you excused. My thoughts are that it should be opposite, RE should be optional especially at the primary age!

Read that pdf also, no child is REQUIRED, so why does it keep going on?? Hmmm....

 

[dog boy]

I went to a Church of England school as a kid we didn't have religion class as such ( that I can remember) but the school was very much connected with the church, doing nativity plays and other religious calender events. I also used to go to summer activity classes as a kid which were all church run with the aim of "educating" children with religion. Ever since I was about 10 I realized religion is not for me. so Im guessing your kids will make the same decisions no matter how much its is forced upon them and I dare say if you don't practice it then they will follow your lead. Although I do think religion should be taken out of the public school curriculum, because there not being taught the earth is flat anymore. Having said all of that some people just need something to believe in and thats cool.

Hope that helped.

 

[Norco Maniac]

my older kids went to primary school in the mid '90's. it was a small school, about 110 kids - i requested that my children not attend religious instruction classes as i felt there was bias towards a single denomination, and after sampling a few churches and other spiritualist groups through my teens and twenties, i'd decided that i was against organised religion.

i was lucky enough at that time to be a stay at home mum, so i would bring my youngest down and spend the hour reading to my kids instead. a larger school would have had a library class.

i did keep checking with the twins whether they felt awkward to because they were the only kids in the school not attending those classes.

 

[mtb1611]

Before I post, if anyone decides to use this thread as a ground for abuse, ignorence, or intolerance, please refrain from posting.

Ok, so my little girl is 5. She started kindi last week and came home yesterday telling me all about God.
"Dad, did you know that God made you. and 'he' made everything you see"?
Hmmm....

My religious leanings aside here, I thought public schools weren't biased towards religion, and wonder if it is really neccessary for kids to be exposed to this at such an early age?

IMO, I think they should be old enough at least to understand the concept of omnipotence, infinity, and that there are multiple religions to choose from before they are asked to make a choice.

And that it is being taught by a scripture teacher, that I have never met so effectively a stranger.

Something just dosn't sit right with me when it comes to pushing God on kids.
Not unless those kids are at least made aware that there are different religions.

Losing sleep over this.

Anyone here got any kids that are a bit older and have been though this at school already?

Any thoughts are welcome from open minded 'burners.

If your daughter attends a public school you would have filled out an enrolment form, which is standard for all DET (NSW) schools. Your daughter's school should also have provided you with a form offering several options in regard to religious education. These options are, in most parts of NSW, Anglican, Catholic, or Non Scripture; some schools are also offering the new Ethics classes, in lieu of religious instruction. If you do not wish for your daughter participate in religious instruction you simply provide the school with a letter indicating that you do not wish for her to take part. All DET schools are obliged to provide religious instruction IF representatives of local churches are available to provide such lessons, however you are in no way obliged to grant permission for your daughter to take part in these lessons.

Although public schools do not have anu bias towards any given religion, those persons who deliver such lessons at public schools most certainly will be, based on their denomination. The vast majority of scripture "teachers' are in fact not teachers at all, given that they hold no formal qualifications in regard to educational practice. They are merely volunteers who provide a service to schools that parents may or may not elect to have their child participate in.

This link will take you to a list of NSW DET documents pertaining to religious instruction.

 

[Bermshot]

Couldn't read all the posts and I apologize as my head started to hurt. I am 39, fair dinkum, at 7 I said to mum ' I don't like this class can you write me a letter?' so when everyone went to Scripture as it was/is called I went to the Library and read what ever I wanted to. Punch line..... I like to study all religions and find Core Truth because it is there, what is that truth? well the younglings will have to search!

 

[Australia]

Australia (not the country the user^) where do you draw the line in contradictions in the bible? 4 billion vs 6000 year old planet, fixed form animals or constantly evolving, abiogenisis (not that abiogenisis is a faultless theory) vs creation, etc.

*shrug* I think its fairly clear to any free-thinking person that Genesis is a metaphor. As for the historical record bits - I think you'll find contradictions in any historical record that was written at different times by different people who may or may not have witnessed the events themselves

I notice that alot of people here hold religion to be the root cause of much violence - I agree with you, it is - but I also think that if there was no religion they'd just fight about another social difference - a pair of world wars and the cold war spring to mind as prime examples

But hey, I've been Christmas and Eastering it since I got out of school - so don't hold me out to be a religious fanatic (if we start talking politics though, then you'll see the diehard fundamentalist in me)

Rabbatt made some good points I think - Christmas plays etc are great (I seem to recall a coupe of major characters played by jewish kids at my school - they went on to do their bar mitzahs, evidently they weren't swayed by the christmasy stuff at school)

 

[Bermshot]

Ok, just as a throw off question how many JC shows did anyone see at x-mas time? I saw heaps of santa and elves and the sort but I saw no "substance" to the "festive season" (I put italics above festive season for said reason) for the last few years I haven't seen the significance of said celebration.

If "they" are going to preach at least give a base point. 'dad where did santa come from?, 'Not sure boy, around Turkey in the 17Th century?'.

 

[thecat]

I notice that alot of people here hold religion to be the root cause of much violence - I agree with you, it is - but I also think that if there was no religion they'd just fight about another social difference -

Who was it that said "without religion good people would still do good things and bad people would still do bad things but only religious conviction can so easily convince so many good people to do such bad things"

Though I guess that's just an extension of mob mentality

 

[enjoi]

I would not have a problem with it if they segregated the class into half christian studies, half evolution - perhaps telling the story of life from a more fact based background.

 

[Bermshot]

I will endeavor to teach my boy to search for the religion of the Universe, not a hard-line scientific aspect, which does have it's place but rather the incorruptible core of that that must be.

 

[mtb1611]

I would not have a problem with it if they segregated the class into half christian studies, half evolution - perhaps telling the story of life from a more fact based background.

Exactly how would that be accomplished? The two schools of thought you mention contradict each other in virtually every aspect of the discussion; it'd be virtually impossible to present an objective lesson revolving around both evolution and Chrsitianity. In terms of a "fact based" background, evolution is the way to go, given that it is based on fact....

 

[RCOH]

I would not have a problem with it if they segregated the class into half christian studies, half evolution - perhaps telling the story of life from a more fact based background.

I would prefer 1/2 christian, 1/2 judaism, 1/2 Islam, 1/2 buddhism, 1/2 hindu, 1/2 'other' and 1/2 evolutionary.


edit: I only capitalised Islam on purpose: Allah Akbah!

 

[ajay]

Having been brought up in a very heavy Christian environment and not being Christian myself, I can understand both sides of the fence. In regard to the OP 's situation, obviously you can opt your child out, so that can be takent care of.

As for the evolution of this thread ( ), blaming religeon for war, denouncing all the good things religeon has brought, the inconsistencies in the bible, etc etc etc. No-one will ever reach the bottom of that worm can. So I wont try to add anything to it.

An interesting experience I have had with religeon is this. The very first ciggarette I smoked, the very first time I got drunk, and the very first bong I ripped were ALL on a youthgroup camp... take from that what you will...

"God gave us free will, and sends us to hell for using it"


I think someone being religeous makes them an easy target to cast aspirtions on :

"Oh this guy is a Bible Basher! What an irrational closed minded fool".

I think the closemindedness just as often comes from the self labled "free thinkers" who make no attempt to understand what it is that people get out of religeon. Simply because it cant be explained by current science or any other logical path does not mean it has no merrit.
Many people non believers often say religeon preaches fear, believers often claim it helps them define their purpose and gives them direction.

I said I wasnt going to add to this thread, alas I'm getting carried away so I'll leave it there with this - arguing about the merrits/downfalls of religeon is like two colour blind people arguing over the colours of the rainbow.

 

[enjoi]

I would prefer 1/2 christian, 1/2 judaism, 1/2 Islam, 1/2 buddhism, 1/2 hindu, 1/2 'other' and 1/2 evolutionary.


edit: I only capitalised Islam on purpose: Allah Akbah!

Hahaha maybe you should smash a maths class in there too!

 

[Bermshot]

A bit off topic but no reason to start a new thread, what about 6yr olds bringing home, how do I put this? Sexual protection awareness booklets? I know it needs to be explained but as a parent I thought it was my responsibility which leaves me in quandary.