Legality of Recording a Conversation?

Graunched

Likes Dirt
The following scenario is hypothetical:

Lets say that hypothetically I had a conversation with a representative from a training organisation who is employed by my employer to "train" me.
At the start of the interview the representative informed me that the conversation would be recorded. At this time I also started recording the conversation but did not inform the representative that I was doing so. About three quarters of the way through the conversation the representative stopped recording and verbally acknowledged that he did so, however I continued to record until the end of the conversation and did not inform him at any time what so ever that I had been recording the conversation as well.

Now hypothetically I would like to replay the conversation to my employer, however I am unsure about the legality of doing so and all of the information that I have found on the internet pertains to recording telephone conversations.

Just wondering if anyone knows if this is legal or not?
 
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Ivan

Eats Squid
Not sure what state your in, but in QLD,

http://lkagroup.com.au/news_news.aspx?view=28
Section 43 Prohibition on use of listening devices

(1) A person is guilty of an offence against this Act if the person uses a listening device to overhear, record, monitor or listen to a private conversation and is liable on conviction on indictment to a maximum penalty of 40 penalty units or imprisonment for two years.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply--

(a) where the person using the listening device is a party to the private conversation;

Section 43 (2)(a) basically states that if you are in a room with another person and you use a tape recorder to tape a conversation without their knowledge, you have not contravened Section 43 (1) because you were a party to the conversation. This obviously does not include placing listening devices in the room where a conversation occurs and you are not present or electronic interception of telephone conversations.

It gets interesting because Section 43 (2) (a) provides a mechanism to tape the conversation without the other parties knowledge, but that’s where it ends. Thus we come to Section 45.


Section 45 Prohibition on communication or publication of private conversations by parties thereto

(1) A person who, having been a party to a private conversation and having used a listening device to overhear, record, monitor or listen to that conversation, subsequently communicates or publishes to any other person any record of the conversation made, directly or indirectly, by the use of the listening device or any statement prepared from such a record is guilty of an offence against this Act and is liable on conviction on indictment to a maximum penalty of 40 penalty units or imprisonment for two years.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply where the communication or publication --

(a) is made to another party to the private conversation or with the consent, express or implied, of all other parties to the private conversation, being parties referred to in section 42(2)(a); or

(b) is made in the course of legal proceedings; or

(c) is not more than is reasonably necessary -

(i) in the public interest; or
(ii) in the performance of a duty of the person making the communication or publication; or
(iii) for the protection of the lawful interests of that person; or

(d) is made to a person who has, or is believed, on reasonable grounds, by the person making the communication or publication to have, such an interest in the private conversation as to make the communication or publication reasonable under the circumstances in which it is made; or

(e) is made by a person who used the listening device to overhear, record, monitor, or listen to the private conversation under section 43(2)(c) or (d).

This section is interesting and provides the mechanism for Section 43 to operate.

Section 45 (2) (a) allows all those taped conversations to occur where the consent, express or implied, had been obtained from the other parties to the conversation. Issues like records of interview or taped statements in general insurance matters where the Insured consents to being interviewed on tape are a perfect and clear cut example of this.


What happens though if you want to covertly tape the conversation?

Firstly, it would be sound advice to seek instructions from your instructing body, be that the general insurance company or WorkCover. Perhaps also consider firstly speaking with your Supervisor or Manager. However; this paper is not designed to be an ethics paper and is simply highlighting the legal mechanisms of the issue.

As we’ve already discussed Section 43 (2) (a) allows for covert taping of a private conversation to occur. So you’ve gone off and secretly taped a conversation with another party. So what are you going to do with the recording?

Section 45 (1) basically states that if you communicate or publish that recording to any other person you commit an offence. This is where Section 45 (2) (b) comes into play.

Section 45 (2) (b) basically states that you have not committed an offence under Section 45 (1) if the taped conversation is being used in the course of legal proceedings.

So what defines legal proceeding you may ask. Well this is defined in Section 45 (3) and states:

(3) In subsection (2)--

Legal proceedings includes--

(a) proceedings (whether civil or criminal) in or before any court; and

(b) proceedings before justices; and

(c) proceedings before any court, tribunal or person (including any inquiry, examination or arbitration) in which evidence is or may be given; and

(d) any part of legal proceedings.

Section 45 (3) appears to cover Common Law matters where a Notice of Claim for Damages is Lodged with WorkCover QLD or other matters before the Courts, however Statutory Claims are a different matter and these probably do not fall under the definition of legal proceedings as they are being presented to an assessor for a decision as to whether or not to pay benefits.
 

g-fish

Likes Bikes and Dirt
It is illeagal to record someone without letting them know. People go to great length's to disguise recorded conversations. I've seen sneaky little microphones embedded in a earphone bud to record telephone conversations stealthly :cool:

EDIT: ^ Althernatively you could just read the above
 

3viltoast3r

Likes Bikes and Dirt
^^^^So from what I read, it isn't illegal if you dont show anyone else - If you show your employer the recording without informing the person you were recording it is Illegal.

Presumably the law is there for recording conversation's in the case it goes to court or something of the likes..
 

smeck

Likes Dirt
Section 45 (2) (d), and (e) piqued my interest in reading Ivan's post. If you have reasonable grounds for the employer to hear it, ie. the employer is being slandered or ripped off; given you made the recording as a party to the conversation I think you'd be okay to 'publish' the particular part of the conversation that refers to your employer, and show that part exclusively to your employer. There's nothing like real legal advice though, I'd hate to have to front a Magistrate because of something I heard on an MTB forum.
 

dcrofty

Eats Squid
Ask Ben Fordham, he's probably pretty good on all this right now

Jokes aside if they didn't know then you can't use it. Personally I wouldn't admit to doing it to anyone either.
 
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Graunched

Likes Dirt
Thanks guys, food for thought.

Personally I wouldn't admit to doing it to anyone either.
Maybe a little paranoid? From my interpretation as long as I don't 'subsequently communicate or publish to any other person any record of the conversation made, directly or indirectly' then there is nothing to it.
 

Ivan

Eats Squid
Thanks guys, food for thought.



Maybe a little paranoid? From my interpretation as long as I don't 'subsequently communicate or publish to any other person any record of the conversation made, directly or indirectly' then there is nothing to it.
Well, you certainly won't be in any trouble unless you get caught ;)

Seriously, the laws are different between states, and whilst what you've done so far would appear to be legal in QLD, you really need to check the legislation if you live in another state.

Your situation sounds nasty, and could be loose-loose.
 

Graunched

Likes Dirt
Well, you certainly won't be in any trouble unless you get caught ;)

Seriously, the laws are different between states, and whilst what you've done so far would appear to be legal in QLD, you really need to check the legislation if you live in another state.

Your situation sounds nasty, and could be loose-loose.

Well as its a hypothetical situation I will investigate the legality before doing so in reality.
 
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dcrofty

Eats Squid
Maybe a little paranoid? From my interpretation as long as I don't 'subsequently communicate or publish to any other person any record of the conversation made, directly or indirectly' then there is nothing to it.
Possibly. But that legislation listed above is from QLD and from memory you are in NSW? I'd have a look over the relevant legislation for your state anyway. That Media watch article I linked to had a comment that recording someone's conversation without their knowledge was illegal under the Listening devices Act 1984 in NSW so if if you are in NSW then you might have broken the law already even if you haven't communicated the recording to anyone.
 
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