Magnetic therapy???anyone???

reej

Likes Dirt
ive just re-broken my right collarbone and the doc said over six weeks until no sling and a couple of weeks after that i can ride. i want to make it to ourimbah nsw state champs in mid august. this is pushing it a little bit and after watchin super 8 and hearing sam hill comment on using magnetic therapy with his elbow i thought i might have a look into it. i have heard it can almost halve the healing time!!!:eek: :eek:
just wondering if anyone has used this before on any broken bones or have heard about anything of this. also an average price would be good:D
cheers
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
fattyandthepiemakers said:
Personally I think magnets work as well as rubbing olive oil on your compound fractures... I wouldn't really bother.
What are you basing your opinion on?
 

gravelclimber

Likes Dirt
Magnetic therapy has no scientific validity.

From Wikipedia:
Criticism of these products focuses on scientific facts about magnets, including the claim that the typical magnet used in a bracelet purchased over-the-counter is not powerful enough to penetrate human skin, let alone strong enough to have a lasting effect on muscle tissue, bones, blood vessels, or organs. Notably, some people working in physics research work for hours per day with their whole body immersed in magnetic fields far stronger than those from the bracelets, and (if they observe precautions regarding pacemakers) are no more or less healthy than their peers. There are handheld neodymium magnets that produce a field of over one tesla and are often used in various hobbies. Household devices such as a garbage disposal, or an electric razor, also produce significant magnetic fields when in use.

No magnet healing product manufacturers have demonstrated scientifically that they actually achieve what they claim, and most cannot even agree on what exactly the magnetic fields do. Some claim that the magnets help to circulate the blood by some interaction with the iron in hemoglobin, a major component of red blood cells. However, in its ionised form, iron is not ferromagnetic. If it were, use of magnetic resonance imaging would instantaneously kill patients.[2] Still others claim that the magnets can restore the body's electromagnetic energy balance. There are also claims that the south pole of a magnet acts different on the body than the north pole. The list of ways that manufacturers purport that magnetic fields affect the body is almost endless.

It should be noted that many, if not most, of the websites that provide information and resources promoting the benefits of magnetic therapy belong to individuals and companies that profit from the sale of magnetic therapy products.
More here:
http://skepdic.com/magnetic.html

It won't do you any harm but you'll be wasting your money.
 

fattyandthepiemakers

I ride an STP
johnny said:
What are you basing your opinion on?
Nothing, it just sounds stupid and I don't believe it gives any benefit what-so-ever. Not going in to it further like last time. :rolleyes:

**EDIT**

Looks like my rambling was accurate.
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
fattyandthepiemakers said:
Not going in to it further like last time. :rolleyes:
I wasn't aware there was a last time.

Also, Gravelclimber, whilst I don't discredit Wikipeadia and many points it makes there are valid I'm sure, I would be much more comfortable reading the opinion of qualified professionals like that found in a peer reviewed publication than a website.
 
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arpit

Banned
johnny said:
What are you basing your opinion on?
The default status of any treatment is 'bogus' unless proved otherwise. The onus is not on him to prove that the treatments are ineffectual. Instead, the onus is on the proponents of the magnetic treatment theories to adduce peer reviewed scientific studies which support their assertions.
In addition, where claims are extraordinary, it is reasonable to expect proof of these claims to be similarly extraordinary.

I'd advise you (the original poster) to ask your doctor about his or her opinions of the magnetic therapies before investing any money in them whatsoever
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
arpit said:
The default status of any treatment is 'bogus' unless proved otherwise. The onus is not on him to prove that the treatments are ineffectual. Instead, the onus is on the proponents of the magnetic treatment theories to adduce peer reviewed scientific studies which support their assertions.
In addition, where claims are extraordinary, it is reasonable to expect proof of these claims to be similarly extraordinary.
No. I'm asking Fatty why he doesn't believe they work, not whether they do or don't work. I already have my own opinions, I wanted to know how he formed his.
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
gravelclimber said:
Johnny, I'd don't have access to peer-reviewed articles at home but I can post at work tomorrow.
If you can that would be good. I'm relatively injury prone and stuff like this always makes me curious. Cheers mate.
 

fattyandthepiemakers

I ride an STP
johnny said:
No. I'm asking Fatty why he doesn't believe they work, not whether they do or don't work. I already have my own opinions, I wanted to know how he formed his.
Personal opinion, gosh! I simply fail to see how they would work but if they did work why doesn't every home own one?
 
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ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Even if it doesnt work scientifically... there could be a significant placebo effect here...

If you want something that does actually work, try comfry cream - its the bees knees (do bee actually have knees??.. anyway...)
 

arpit

Banned
johnny said:
No. I'm asking Fatty why he doesn't believe they work, not whether they do or don't work. I already have my own opinions, I wanted to know how he formed his.
fair call. What I was implying, but didn't explicitly state, was that a mere lack of evidence probative of the claims would be sufficient grounds to dismiss them.

I appreciate that you may not have formed a conclusive opinion about the legitimacy of these treatments, as shown by your willingness to explore journal articles. However, for curiosity's sake- what is your tentative opinion about the treatments?
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Fatty, I asked because you may have had personal experience you could share with us, that's all. Sorry if I pushed you and now you're going to snap and go postal on your family or something.

Arpit, skeptical, as I also subscribe to the onus of proof being upon the claimant. I'm also always skeptical of medical treatments that are advertised on TV, rather than prescribed by doctors. So I too make the same deductions as Fatty, but they are only a skeptical assumption, not qualified opinion. I'm injury prone, so it pays for me to be curious.
 

arpit

Banned
abstracts:

http://www.japmaonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/11
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10714732&dopt=Abstract
And a news article
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/?id=MAGNET.UVM


There's also an unreplicated study which could suggest that certain magnetic fields in some situations can reduce pain :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9365349&dopt=Abstract

In short, there isn't conclusive evidence about the effectiveness of magnetic therapy devices currently marketed.

Sellers of these devices are notorious for making bogus, and sometimes illegal claims about the therapeutic value of their devices.
http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/AG/CA/ehc.html
 

Rickystp0

Likes Bikes and Dirt
well i have broken my clavical ( broken my collar bone as well) and i took 2 clacium tablets a day and i was riding in 3 weeks and fully riding in 4 . as for magnets my mum uses them for athuritis they work for that as they do something to the white blood cells which attract them away from the join. im not sure if it would work for broken bones though......
 

kizza01

Likes Dirt
Well ill say no to this treatment. Ill give 2 reasons for my opinions just for you Johnny :D. Firstly, my dads a doctor and has given me lots of evidence to think this treatment shonky, however i must point out that he to is biased in thinking that its a loas of shit used to dupe the under educated on this type of thing. I dont mean that the starter of this thread is under educated, just maybe in the medical area.

Secondly, ive done physics at uni last year n a bit of this year so i know a bit about magnetic fields. When i approached and asked a woman selling this stuff at the markets that are on the banks of the yarra near the casino (im from adelaide so i dont go there often), she was dribbling garbage about the north pole being the sun energy and the south being the moon energy and that is balances hot and cold injuries in the body.

Needless to say she was pissed and abused me when i pointed out that she gave no logical explanation as to why the treatment worked. i think its a load of crap but i dont discount the placebo effect that some patients may experience whilst undergoing this treatment.
 

Binaural

Eats Squid
I have taken something of an interest over the years in quack remedies, and I can say unconditionally that no reputable double-blind studies that I have heard of validate the idea that a magnetic bracelet or similar has any theurapatic effect. This is not to say such studies have not been done, but they have all returned a null result meaning no statistically significant or repeatable effect has been discovered.

Magnetic fields are used all the time in medical science and their effects on the body are pretty well understood. For example, MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) is used to scan for brain activity, and some types of nuclear medicine take advantage of strong magnetic fields. However, no theurapatic claims are made for these devices that I know of other than data collection.

As a side note, some of the claims made by magnetic therapy providers are amusingly ludicrous to anybody with a basic knowledge of field physics. Kizz01 is right to point out that your average hippy or TV salesman wouldn't have the first clue about what makes a magnetic field different from a electrostatic charge, and it is telling how many of these "therapies" are sold in the clarivoyant section of newspaper TV guides.
 

gravelclimber

Likes Dirt
Slightly OT, but anyone see the Chaser episode where one of them was selling "Oil of Snake" and "Bollocks" remedies at a New Age festival? Funny as.
 
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