n00b 29er question

[hilo]

Hi Folks:

Well, I am pretty new to MTB, am 202cm or so high, 106kg--so not small by any means. My previous riding experience has been solely road for the last 20 years.

Let me tell you, there is little skill transfer!

I have copped a beating riding a MTB--literally. The big issue for me is one of confidence/skill/balance. I ride a bit with some downhill guys, and they kick my ass on trails. Hell, little old grannies do . . .

Bit of info: I ride a 2010 GF HiFi Pro 29er

Do I just suck?

Am I timid due to lack of experience and my 'balls' and skills will just come with time and practice? (I have taken one MTB skills course so far and I did OK; plan to take others, but I am risk averse particularly after 2 reasonably heavy crashes in the last few months that left me pretty bruised up)

In particular, I am finding difficulty with:

1. tight single track especially where trees are close together (sometimes my bars don't fit through, and they are cut to 685mm)

2. Switchback style single-track descents--those corners, well I dunno what to do . . .

3. technical descents


As a tall 29er rider (and it's a BIG bike, say compared to the steeds the dwarves I ride with have) will I always be at a big disadvantage to short guys (or gals) on 26ers?

I know it's unfair to compare someone who has been riding downhill for 8 years with myself with only 6 months XC/Enduro experience, but sometimes I just wonder what is wrong with me.

Any tips much appreciated. My guess is I should keep plugging away and probably focus on doing repeats of things I find difficult--however, I want to ensure I get the right techniques down as well for 29er riding.

Cheers

HiLo

EDIT: just a PS: I am spending most of my time around Smith's Gully, VIC and doing things like the 50km Otway Odyssey, Lysterfield once, Hans Loop, etc.

 

[Benizmo]

Just to throw some ideas out there

Obviously it takes time to actually learn the skills which will translate into confidence
But straight off you need to look at your bike setup, if it isn't correct it could really hinder you. Did you get a decent bike setup done when you bought it?

Riding with better riders is quick way to learn, but when they are off in a second you are generally just trying to hang on. Which doesn't leave much time to ride sections properly, and stop to practice. The best thing you can do here is find some people who are at the same level, at least for a few rides a month, that way you can spend the time to repeat things.

Then you can find trails which you can repeat in short loops. Sections at Hans loop are good for this, just make a 2min loop that let's you practice a specific set of skills

Skills clinics and coaching are the other option you mentioned, there are some great courses in melbourne which are definitely worth the money for everyone from beginner to elite racers

Hope that is a starting point.

 

[Hugor]

Massive question.
6 months is not a long time in the learning curve so don't despair.
There are plenty of great learning resources.
These give you the basics and then you've just got to go out and practice them with time.
Trying to keep up with experienced riders who disappear into the dust is not likely to be helpful to your progress and could lead you into injuries.
My favourite sources have been Brian Lopes book "mastering mountain bike skills". Its cheap and absolutely brilliant.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/07360837...de=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=0736083715
I have also found the IMBIKEMAG online videos really really helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/user/IMBIKEMAG
Lastly do not think you have to be out on a trail to learn things.
I have been known to practice skills at my local park.
Limestone retaining barriers for sand pits make great north shore practice and if you goof up it won't hurt.
There's always small drops you can practice wheely offs, manuals etc. Trackstands, endos etc are much better on soft grass.
I've done loads of this stuff and you can repeat small skills over and over until you get them dialled.
Its much easier to do these things frequently at your local park rather than wait for your next trip to the trail.

 

[mtb101]

there's some easy answers to this.

'riding with downhill guys' + 20 road experience'

downhill mtb at speed is very tricky as the risk if you fall is high, so riding with fearless downhill guys is not ideal. Of course you want to keep up and then you go outside your skill range and bang you fall off, they have a laugh and on you go, a few more bruises.

20 years road experience means you are probably a very strong rider who has suddenly got to ride in granny gear because your skill set can't match the potential power you have in dirt.

So how to gain skills etc? Firstly don't think it's good riding with guys whose skills are way beyond yours, especially smiths which has very sketchy downhills.

Here's my tips:

1. tight single track especially where trees are close together (sometimes my bars don't fit through, and they are cut to 685mm)

Simple ... slow down, get to know your bike by stopping and testing width, then when approaching tree gap, 1. don't look at tree left/right, look centre, trust width (your body will know) if you stuff it up, it's a shoulder bounce off tree, if you aren't confident, then slow down and build up. 2. Advanced - too narrow, do a right thrust, left put with handle bar not hard to do with practice. Bit of a boxer dodge and weave action.

2. Switchback style single-track descents--those corners, well I dunno what to do . .

Well I would try and master the Westerfolds (pink ribbon loop) switchbacks there are 4 I think - at start of loop, go up and down, requires low speed balance, pedal tech and good line choice, enter wide, exit straight.

3. technical descents

you have some kgs behind you so you are going to fly, need to be 'off seat', body low, feather brakes to maintain speed you can handle, read terrain and don't be stuck behind riders, constantly look ahead, then ride accordingly. You must be one with the bike descending, so stay relaxed let bike roll, then brake, cut speed, roll, cut speed, eventually it's all roll!!

 

[Big JD]

Hang in there mate

Perhaps wear some knee and elbow pads while you are starting out and dont be in a hurry - go at your own speed and focus on clearing new obstacles and gaining a little skill each time you swing a leg over. I am your size and while we have further to fall - we are at no disadvantage. My mates that came from road also suffered and many gave up on MTB because they got beaten up too much. Stick to real easy stuff for a while and hone your skills.
Good luck mate and hang in there
JD

 

[ozzybmx]

Perhaps wear some knee and elbow pads while you are starting out and dont be in a hurry - go at your own speed and focus on clearing new obstacles and gaining a little skill each time you swing a leg over. I am your size and while we have further to fall - we are at no disadvantage. My mates that came from road also suffered and many gave up on MTB because they got beaten up too much. Stick to real easy stuff for a while and hone your skills.
Good luck mate and hang in there
JD

Good idea ! After riding for a couple of months i had a decent crash and the confidence took a big knock, the reality of MTBing can hurt rocked home quick smart with 4 weeks off work and 1 in hospital.
I rode for the next 6-9 months with evo knee pads till my balls grew again with that came more skill on the trails .

 

[Refreshinglygood]

only 1 way to get better. ride often and ride lots

 

[hilo]

Thanks folks--some great advice.

Usually I try not to ride with people 'way above' my technical prowess, although that isn't so easy to find! I do a lot of solo work *cough*.

RE: the pads idea--sounds great, and not one I had thought of--any tips? I was thinking of just getting some semi decent elbow and knee pads then---Alpinestars any good? Was looking at discounted items at chainreaction.co.uk

I will keep plugging away. I am enjoying MTB, just a bit frustrated at the moment!

 

[Stevob]

How confident are you of unclipping when you need to? Maybe loosen the springs a little too.

 

[mtb101]

if you can master the pink ribbon loop, you will just about have enough skills for 99% of mtb riding, so I think that's what I would be doing. Of course you have to ride with specific knowledge of how to get better. Maybe we can organize a session up at Westerfolds - I might be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Hugor]

Narrow tree gaps.
I hate these things. I've not seen any of these in the UK yet.
It seems to be an Aussie thing.
My advice after many spills.
Do not use bar ends unless you're into high speed horizontal dives over the front of the bike.
Work out your comfortable hand width on the bars and cut all remaining bar outside your hand off. As you're approaching a gap your brain will always be able to judge whether your hands will clear the gap, but anything outside your hands cannot be judged unless you look down at your bars.

 

[Ivan]

Just a suggestion here, maybe it will help, maybe it won't...

Try riding on flat pedals until your skills build up a bit. At the moment your skill probably doesn't match your fitness, so I don't think your going to loose too much by not being clipped in.

This is assuming that your using spd style pedals though.

I have been riding MTB on and off for 15 years now, and I spent the first 4 years riding mainly DH on flat pedals. I still feel more confident on flat pedals, but do most of my riding now clipped in for the added efficiency and benefit when climbing hills.

I do think it's a lot for someone to learn to ride offroad whilst being clipped in.

 

[Big JD]

Best pads

Thanks folks--some great advice.

Usually I try not to ride with people 'way above' my technical prowess, although that isn't so easy to find! I do a lot of solo work *cough*.

RE: the pads idea--sounds great, and not one I had thought of--any tips? I was thinking of just getting some semi decent elbow and knee pads then---Alpinestars any good? Was looking at discounted items at chainreaction.co.uk

I will keep plugging away. I am enjoying MTB, just a bit frustrated at the moment!

By far are POC - expensive but the only pads that dont feel like you are wearing any.

 

[hilo]

Ooooo a bit for me to digest and also seek points of clarification (thanks again for the tips):

1. Pedals: I am now riding with Time, had Crank Bros Candy SL which I hated (one of them sort of broke)--Time are great, but no I have not tried riding on platform-style--I guess that would necessitate changing to that more casual shoe style as the two pairs of MTB shoes I have are cleated. I do have some firm commuting cycling shoes that should work. I could imagine swapping in platforms when I go and focus on 'skills' (which really is the purpose of the post), but I feel gimped without my Times as quite a bit of my riding involves fire roads.

2. Narrow 'tree-lined singletrack' and handlebar width: most of my problem stems from those situations where the trees are right next to each other--I think the only solution seems to be to stop and twist the handlebars partially sideways, limp through and continue--this happened to me in one section of the Otway Odyssey 50km--pretty much had to walk the whole section as I could not see how I could fit through. The times I have ridden Hans Loop (if I did it right) it was tight but not too tight except in one spot (if I recall correctly). Happy to be proven wrong on the OO track, and I know finer perception will come with experience.

3. Bike-rider setup: I had a bike fit done with the MTB, have done some finetuning, and have done quite a bit of reading re: Steve Hogg--his fitting advice for road helped me deal with some biomechanical issues I had had, as well as some injuries. Does this transfer to MTB, well I think part of it does, but I am of course riding with my seat a bit lower than on the road bike to help with descending/moving my weight back. My downhill-riding buddy did tell me to drop my seatpost a bit for 'control', but I only dropped it a bit. I have ordered a Rockshox Reverb to allow me to fool around with seat heights in different terrain, but that is on backorder. Any MTB fitting resources or gurus worth noting?

Also just note that while I have ridden road for about 20 years, I was at best C-grade-ish--maybe B-grade at one point, I ride for fitness and fun--competition is just great for goal setting and learning from my perspective. My working and family life is too busy to get too crazy. I am recently coming back into decent fitness, but carrying probably 8-10kg more than I really need to be (damn Aussie Red Wine).

mtb101: I will toss you a PM when I get back from a week-end trip, and yeah would love some pointers in Hans Loop if you have the patience. I am also looking at taking a follow up mtbskills course, but it doesn't look like there will be anything until May or so that will suit me.

Also, any tips on upcoming races/rides in Victoria that would suit someone with less technical skill would be appreciated: my first race was the Castlemaine Enduro as part of the Vic Series last year (having ridden for a few weeks on the MTB) and it was a rude awakening in terms of MTB skills required! I have done Beaconsfield once (beginning was too technical for me and I crashed on a descent), and the 50km Otway Odyssey this year, well it was pretty wet so I just took it easy (and did not crash, saw a lot of people crash though).

Cheers and thanks again,

HiLo

 

[Benizmo]

I'd say just stick with the clipless, from the riding your doing it is the better option. Flats will just give you the temptation to form bad habits!

Castlemaine is a tough intro to racing. If the crazy6 at the you yangs goes ahead that race will be perfect.

 

[big gags]

HiLo,

I am a big guy too (195cm, 102 kg) and do a lot of my mtb riding around Smith's Gully as well with a group of other guys. I ride a singlespeed rigid setup and in our group there is a mixture of SS, gears, 26", and 29er setups.

"Switchback style single-track descents--those corners, well I dunno what to do . . "

I have found over time that for some reason these corners seem easier if I shift my weight backwards just as I enter the corner, slightly unweighting the front wheel....this seems to get me around the corners a bit quicker. I also try really hard to never lock up the back wheel while braking as it is all about keeping a smooth line, maintaining momentum, and letting your weight do the work.

What tyres and tyre pressure are you running? I used to have lots of issues with pinch flats so I had to run my tyres at about 45 psi to avoid this and this resulted in my cornering being a bit sketchy at times. I have now gone tubeless and have noticed a big difference running the tyres at 35 psi (I am running Maxxis Crossmarks on Stans Arch rims).

Some great tracks around Smith's Gully - we sometimes go from one of the guy's houses in Kangaroo Ground to Kinglake (emerging on the road at the watertank that is a couple of km down towards St Andrews from Kinglake) and then come back the same way (this is a good 3.5 to 4 hour ride). Trails were starting to get pretty overgrown a couple of months ago and I can only imagine that they are worse now given all the rain!! We have been concentrating on training for the 3 peaks ride of late and so haven't been out to Smiths Gully for a while but we will no doubt be heading back out that way once the 3 peaks ride is over. Let me know if you ever want to meet up for a ride with us and I will give you the details of our google groups site where we generally work out where we are riding each week.

Cheers,

Gags

 

[Mad Hatter]

Ooooo a bit for me to digest and also seek points of clarification (thanks again for the tips):

1. Pedals: I am now riding with Time, had Crank Bros Candy SL which I hated (one of them sort of broke)--Time are great, but no I have not tried riding on platform-style--I guess that would necessitate changing to that more casual shoe style as the two pairs of MTB shoes I have are cleated.

A bit of both worlds for the pedal thing. I`ve got a pair of these on my GF for my wife (we only have the one MTB and have to share) who is relatively new to MTB.
http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...s/mountain/product.-code-PD-M545.-type-..html
The cleats come with the pedals and would work with most shoes (someone correct me if I`m wrong here). My wife likes them because she can get the power into her pedal stroke on hill starts a lot easier without actually clipping in.
Hope this helps.

The only other thing I could suggest is from a quote when a rider (name is a complete blank but he had just won a big race if that helps) was asked the question of what special training tips does he use to increase his skill.
His reply was "I just ride my bike .... a lot"
Cheers
MH

 

[hilo]

HiLo,


What tyres and tyre pressure are you running? I used to have lots of issues with pinch flats so I had to run my tyres at about 45 psi to avoid this and this resulted in my cornering being a bit sketchy at times. I have now gone tubeless and have noticed a big difference running the tyres at 35 psi (I am running Maxxis Crossmarks on Stans Arch rims).

Gags:

Depending on weather, I have been running either in the wet Nevegals (tubed) on my stock rims (but just destroyed one in a crash so getting a Velocity replacement) , or (my main setup) Specialized Purgatory 2BLISS on the front and Specialised The Captain Control 2Bliss on the rear, run tubeless on Shimano XT 29er wheels. Wheels seem to have held up well, and the tyres seal no problem.

Pressures: Nevegals I run about 40-45ish (again, tubes, and I am heavy), and the tubeless set up I run 35-40.

I have a set of Racing Ralphs lying about unused, but I don't trust them tubeless and the weather I think has been rather shitty for them. Also, I think they will probably be unforgiving for a newbie like me.

I am keen on joining up for some rides around Smiths so yes it would be great if you could PM me any details re: Google groups or whatever.

Thanks

HiLo

 

[hilo]

Just a quick update:

I picked up some lightweight body armor: POC elbow pads, and 661 Evo Knee Pads. The POC knee pads wouldn't fit (my huge legs ) even in a large (their largest size). The medium 661 EVO were larger than the large POC, and seem to fit me snugly without blocking any circulation.

It remains to be seen when I go riding though!

Again, thanks for the tips--I am trying to put a few things into play as I progress.

HiLo