National Cup

moorey

Pagophagic
Am I the only one struggling to understand the National Cup? Is it just a tabulation of points earned across all the state and local based MTBA events?
They list gravity enduro as part of the national cup, but only list events for XC, marathon and DH in the national cup calendar.
I confess, I’ve always struggled with the MTBA calendar and format, and this is just adding another layer of confusion to my small brain. o_O
 

Ky1e

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah it's all a little bit confusing hey..

I see that rocky trail haven't registered any of their events in the cup. Not many events in NSW from what I can see..
 

moorey

Pagophagic
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Whereas Vic seems to have got in with the DH. I guess it was just first in/most pro active, best dressed? ( on the upper tier events, at least)
 

notime

Likes Dirt
I don't see any incentive for clubs to run a race unless they feel the need to showcase themselves and trails. If your club is already providing racing for the local community then why go to the effort and expense for a couple people to earn half a point.
If our club decided to run regular XC series races as a cheaper tier 3 or even tier 2 event it would benefit maybe 4 riders out of the 100 or so riders that would normally show up for a clubby. At best those riders may get enough points to improve their start line position at National Champs. The negative side is cost, volunteer burnout and we would probably lose more riders because of intimidation than it would benefit.
 

moorey

Pagophagic
The Buller and Baw Baw DH rounds are existing VDHS rounds. I think Bright is the National champs and oceanias, running one after the other. Seems to make sense to piggyback them on other events.
 

Stinky

Likes Dirt
I have never understood the concept of running Oceanias separate to Nationals. Just do one race and separate out the results. For the low numbers that Oceanias attracts it is not worth the cash and the strain on Volunteers.

As far as the National Cup goes, it is hugely confusing with no real incentive for a club to sign up. The only real benefit may be that it will open up funding opportunities from local and state government for having a nationally recognised event.
 

moorey

Pagophagic
697F26E0-6EA6-4F39-811E-C8A450843247.jpeg

Update.
FIIK why they didn’t make at least one tied into the Vic GE series that starts soon. Most rounds are in 2019. o_O
 

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Is it just a tabulation of points earned across all the state and local based MTBA events?
Yes, essentially first and second place in each discipline could and most likely will go the whole season without ever competing against each other or on the same course. The spiel is that it should open up our National level competition to the entire country and not just the East coast and it is now significantly less expensive to have the honour of hosting a National event especially in the lower tier events.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
it is now significantly less expensive to have the honour of hosting a National event especially in the lower tier events.
No reputable club should have to pay a cent to MTBA to host any sort of national event. The business model MTBA have always employed is a pile of shit and the lack of a national series is evidence of that. I went through this sage staging round 1 of the downhill series this year and I can safely tell you all that the cost incurred is astronomical and massively unnecessary. I'm not publically disclosing what is what but after I sent some solid advice to MTBA they come up with this new system of staging events!
National rounds need to have the cost cut by more than half. Only employ reputable clubs with venues that can handle shit weather, have a good volunteer base to help out, a strong leadership core, shuttles and access that is advised by the local club. Basically, just get good tracks with good clubs on board and above all else, if MTBA want to earn some cred then they should fund the entire thing instead of stinging clubs for a near $40,000 expense and get half that back in entries alone. The need to seek council and government grants to just stage an event is a joke, shouldn't be that way and almost makes it a farce to start with.
MTBA don't do shit for mountain biking, they never have. I've been running club, state and national level events for fifteen years and have had one; ONE visit from MTBA staff and that was only because they somehow needed to be involved in the national round. I have never held back in saying MTBA is nothing more than an insurance company and do absolutely zero for you the mountain biker except complicate the cool things you could be doing. Where is MTBA's face when it comes to meeting big wigs trying to get trail networks happening? Where is MTBA when the after party happens at a race to high five the volunteers who stood in the heat all day to blow a fucking whistle? Where is MTBA when a World Cup comes along except to stick their nose in just to say they are behind such great things? Where is MTBA when your club needs some new tools and you've got a zero bank balance because you have to keep propping MTBA up with their meaningless fee's?
They are an insurance company and do nothing for mountain biking in Australia. I'd love to see that change to a point where they encourage people to ride and race and not discourage people with their political bullshit.
I see the national series (if you can even call it that) as nothing suitable to anyone except the dudes and dude-ettes who need points to gain a spot on an equally bullshit loaded UCI roster.
 

Stinky

Likes Dirt
Could not agree more. It is for this reason that all of our Enduro events are now self insured with no involvement from MTBA. I would prefer to pay more for insurance to ensure that we can deliver events they way that I want to and how they should be. (by not calling them GE as a start).
 

climberman

Likes Dirt
View attachment 348468
Update.
FIIK why they didn’t make at least one tied into the Vic GE series that starts soon. Most rounds are in 2019. o_O
I got a similar email from Angie.
I think they need to get the events to come on board (OK that's obvious) but they can't have sold it well yet.
I'm interested in the idea if just a formalised excuse to get out and do some 'training', and riding in places I might not make myself go to otherwise, perhaps some light-hearted competition with a mate across the year.... I'm interested in the GE events (I know, I know, whatever they call it...). I can't ride for shit but I like to try.

NSW seems like it will take a bit to get a full suite of enduro events on; neither Rocky Trails nor Thredbo will be linking to the National Cup.

Reading somewhere in the depths of the details the actual linking for event runners isn't anywhere near as pricey as this shit used to be. A few hundred for a Club round, with one free listed event a year.

Getting 12 events to go to across the year in NSW for GE might be the biggest hurdle o_Oo_O
 

climberman

Likes Dirt
Still only just12 events of any Tier for (gravity) enduro across the nation linked to the NatCup :( 13 shown on the app but I suspect one is a wrongly coded 6hr xc enduro
None in NSW that I can see.


:(
 

caad9

Likes Dirt
Among people I ride with, National Races are the butt of many jokes.
People that don't come close to a win in local club races can become National Champions in their age category, simply because fields are so small.
Admittedly, this is based on the XC side of things.

The racing community is so small in Australia compared to the number of MTB enthusiasts
 

climberman

Likes Dirt
Among people I ride with, National Races are the butt of many jokes.
People that don't come close to a win in local club races can become National Champions in their age category, simply because fields are so small.
Admittedly, this is based on the XC side of things.

The racing community is so small in Australia compared to the number of MTB enthusiasts
Sure, but I think part of the National Cup idea is to spread the participation away from just a single National Championship event.
 

davidg

Squid
Ok I'll preface my rant with the following statement, we probably need to give this whole concept a full year or two to work itself out but at the moment the whole National Cup thing is as confusing AF.

For a start, the calendar is a schemozzle. Some events listed here



don't appear here


and vice versa.

Also its not clear if an event is part of a separate series (club, regional or state), the event names are not listed (e.g. the Bayview Blast) which makes it difficult to locate certain events and there's barely any racing in NSW. None of the Rocky Trail events are listed and the events are seemingly just as spread out as they ever have been. There is 1 XC event listed within a 6 hour drive of Sydney, a city with 5million + people and the largest MTB community in the country. One!

Its far worse on the DH and Enduro side of things. There is a single, solitary Downhill event for the entire state. What Tier is it? "Not set". What are the event details? Not listed. Can I enter the event? Check back later.

When I first saw MTBA's plan and read through the details I thought it seemed like a good idea. But honestly if I cant figure it out then your average punter is just going to say f**k it I'm going to Blue Derby, Thredbo, Buller etc. for the weekend.
 

climberman

Likes Dirt
Ok I'll preface my rant with the following statement, we probably need to give this whole concept a full year or two to work itself out but at the moment the whole National Cup thing is as confusing AF.

For a start, the calendar is a schemozzle. Some events listed here



don't appear here


and vice versa.

Also its not clear if an event is part of a separate series (club, regional or state), the event names are not listed (e.g. the Bayview Blast) which makes it difficult to locate certain events and there's barely any racing in NSW. None of the Rocky Trail events are listed and the events are seemingly just as spread out as they ever have been. There is 1 XC event listed within a 6 hour drive of Sydney, a city with 5million + people and the largest MTB community in the country. One!

Its far worse on the DH and Enduro side of things. There is a single, solitary Downhill event for the entire state. What Tier is it? "Not set". What are the event details? Not listed. Can I enter the event? Check back later.

When I first saw MTBA's plan and read through the details I thought it seemed like a good idea. But honestly if I cant figure it out then your average punter is just going to say f**k it I'm going to Blue Derby, Thredbo, Buller etc. for the weekend.
Agreed....
Rocky Trails have told me they are not aligning with the NC at all. So have Thredbo.
 

davidg

Squid
Which is a big problem because they run basically all the larger regional events in NSW. I'm probably the exact person MTBA are trying to get involved to help bolster start line numbers and help promote these events. Its a bit of a balls up IMO, I can see the Elite and Masters fields being even smaller than they were as a result with the exception of the Marathon events. They seem to have their shit together.
 

climberman

Likes Dirt
Which is a big problem because they run basically all the larger regional events in NSW. I'm probably the exact person MTBA are trying to get involved to help bolster start line numbers and help promote these events. Its a bit of a balls up IMO, I can see the Elite and Masters fields being even smaller than they were as a result with the exception of the Marathon events. They seem to have their shit together.
Yeah likewise. I was interested as a way to try and get me to some new sites to ride. For some reason an event seems more concrete than a trip away!
 

davidg

Squid
So it turns out everyone cares even less about the National Cup than they did about the old National series format. The results pages is a mess, just a list of point scores and no ability to compare any of the riders results or what "Tier" each race was or who they were racing against.

The lack of events across all disciplines is also a bit of a concern. NSW for example has only 1 XCO and 1 Marathon event listed for 2019. VIC has none, across all disciplines. There's only like 10 Tier 1-2 events listed in total for the entire country, across all disciplines for the rest of the year.

Really MTBA? Is this all part of the plan?
 
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