Newb Tire (tyre?) + Handlebar Question(s)

[hilo]

'ello

Being a Canuck, I spell 'em "tire" but I hope you know what I mean . . .

Right, so I am new again to MTBing, am 6'6", 108kg (aiming to lose a bit) and have a brand spankin' new 23" Gary Fisher Hi Fi Pro 29er. My background in riding is: road riding since 1987 with quite a few stints in racing, and MTBing 1989-1992, using a non-suspended setup (front shocks really sucked then).

I took my Hi Fi Pro out today in . . . well quite muddy Melbourne (park area around the Yarra near Burke Rd.).

Needless to say, I was slipping all over the place. This is to be expected to some extent, but I am running Bontrager XDX tires (stock) and all reports point to them being crappy in wet conditions esp. mud. So my newb questions:

(1) Any tips on mud tires for 29ers? And how does one choose tire width? I have noticed wider front than rear (which makes some intuitive sense to me).

(2) Also, found that my wrists feel quite uncomfortable with the Bontrager swept back bars (no riser). I am thinking of going for a riser with a milder sweep if I can find one. Any tips on this? They are spec'd as "Bontrager Race Lite Bigger Sweep, 690mm width, 17d backsweep, OS"

(3) And finally, with the SRAM Thumbshifters (omg do I prefer the old style Shimano Triggers I rode on in the early 90s) -- I keep hitting them when I brake. I assume that it's OK to move them a bit further from my grips and brake levers. Let me know if I need to look out for anything.

Duh.

Thanks

Hi Lo

 

[Win]

A good alrounder which would be good in mud will be a Schwalbe Little Albert
Otherwise a cheaper alternate for a big guy, Maxxis Ardent

And at 6.6, a wider riser bar for sure

 

[mtb101]

Can't really comment on your questions except to say, don't judge a bike by how it rides in the mud, mud is horrible stuff, avoid it if you can, yes on one level it's fun, but it's a whole new level of riding - and I don't reckon any tyre is really that good in the mud, if you have enough of it, you're gone. And where you rode is particularly swampy wet from all of the rain.

I think mud riding is all about balance and a constant battle to keep the bike moving in a straight line, funny thing about slipping all over the place in mud, yes that's mud it's about slipping your way along the track and somehow pointing the slippy bike around each corner - it really requires you to be lose...

So wait a bit for some nicer weather and see how the components hold up - no doubt the bar issue is from you trying to haul yourself through the mud and the shifters probably again too tense on bars but what do I know I use Shimano.

 

[Steve_N]

From memory there are not a lot of 29er mud tyres around. You commonly find mud tyres to be thinner (1.8 - 1.9") to cut through the slop and grip what's underneath. I know that IRD make a 29er version of Panaracer's Fire XC. Maybe that might be suitable? You'd probably have to order it on-line though.

As for the riser bar issue, the greater backsweep won't suit everyone. I know it doesn't suit me due to my bone structure. A 3 or 5deg sweep suits me better. I've found using Ergon grips really helps alleviate wrist (and numb finger) issues. Maybe look into that area. It's certainly cheaper to experiment with grips than handlebars.

It sounds to me like you need to tinker a little with your cockpit set-up. Yes you can move the SRAM triggers inward, how much will be a personal preference. Take some time to muck around and try different things. It doesn't take much to change things around if it's not working...

...And there's nothing wrong with 90's Shimano triggers. I'm still using a set of '99 XT shifters and they haven't missed a beat...

 

[hilo]

...And there's nothing wrong with 90's Shimano triggers. I'm still using a set of '99 XT shifters and they haven't missed a beat...

Thanks for all the replies so far--some good advice for me.

RE: Shimano trigger shifters--would anyone know if a 9 spd shifter would work with my SRAM X9? They work more intuitively for me, much like Campag Ergolevers vs the others on the road (imho).

Hi Lo

 

[Bodin]

RE: Shimano trigger shifters--would anyone know if a 9 spd shifter would work with my SRAM X9?

Nope, for the rear derailleur, Shimano and SRAM shifters pull different amounts of cable per click, so if you're wanting to continue using the Shimano shifters, you will need a shimano rear derailleur.

The front derailleur doesn't matter, though - SRAM or Shimano shifters have the same cable-pull ratio.

FWIW - I was a Shimano rider through and through back in the day and converted over to SRAM in 2004. Getting used to it was easy and I can just as easily get back on a Shimano bike (my daily commuter with XT 8-speed STI) and not miss a click, so I believe that a lot of people confuse the word "intuitive" with what they really mean - "habitual".

 

[Antsonline]

Conti Mountain King is a good mud tyre - massive knobs, well spaced so they clean well. Available in 29er. A little bit heavy - but I dont think a coupla hundred grams will be noticed once covered in mud anyway.

 

[Stevob]

Thanks for all the replies so far--some good advice for me.

RE: Shimano trigger shifters--would anyone know if a 9 spd shifter would work with my SRAM X9? They work more intuitively for me, much like Campag Ergolevers vs the others on the road (imho).

Hi Lo

Slightly off topic here Hi Lo but (and don't take this the wrong way) why are you riding Yarra Trails when you have so much good single track near you at St Andrews which holds up very well in the wet?

 

[Mad Hatter]

Just moved to Bendigo and it has barely stopped raining. Exploring new trails in rim deep mud has been fun. I run a set of Panaracer Rampage 29 x 2.35 on my GF Paragon. No complaints. Almost identical tread pattern to Kenda Nevegals (which my wife runs on her 26" and are available for 29ers). Both good in loose and sloppy stuff. Not the fastest on hard pack (you can sing to the hum of your tires on the fire roads).
Hope this helps.
Cheers
MH

 

[hilo]

Slightly off topic here Hi Lo but (and don't take this the wrong way) why are you riding Yarra Trails when you have so much good single track near you at St Andrews which holds up very well in the wet?

No offense taken. I haven't moved yet as we just settled last week and some tradies are working on it--still in Northcote, and this week I am on pick-up duty for my daughter from school in Carlton area. That limits my driving/riding time + sneaking in some work *cough*. We move in 3 weeks or so.

I figured I would take my first MTB ride in 20 years somewhere where I could putz around and adjust things anyway.

I even drove out to Lysterfield today, but ended up having some mechanical issues after 1km of riding that were out of my control (and not the fault of the bike or myself). I'll just stay mum on that to protect the guilty. Upshot is my bike will be ready properly tomorrow morning.

Now onto the current choices:

1. Tyres/tires: trying to get the Mountain Kings -- I am a long time Conti fan and after reading some reviews and recommendations I will give those a shot first. I understand that they are also decent for when it is drier. The Conti's are a bit easier for me to access; I will be interested in checking out some IRCs/Panaracers in the near future tho if I can find any.

2. Handlebars: after much investigation into sizing, weights and riser/sweepback stats, I've decided on trying to source a Race Face Atlas AM -- 700mm versus the 690mm I have now, but a less serious sweep at 9 degrees.

http://www.raceface.com/components/handlebars/atlas/atlas-am/

It seems that because of my size there are many larger DH bars out there that might work, but since I want to focus on XC/Enduro I figured trying to save a bit of weight and still keeping them a bit narrower than a DH bar should work.


I think after this I will actually ride the bike a lot more and make further customisation decisions towards Dec-Jan (like, should I go tubeless? -- but that's another thread).

Thanks again everyone for your valuable feedback.

Hi Lo

 

[casnell]

Slightly off topic here Hi Lo but (and don't take this the wrong way) why are you riding Yarra Trails when you have so much good single track near you at St Andrews which holds up very well in the wet?

Agreed, I'm 100 yds from the Yarra Trails between Burke rd and Banksia st and only use the bike path at the moment to access Hans Loop, the Yarra Trails are basically stuffed for another month or two.
As Stevob said, St Andrews holds up well, Hans Loop past Westerfolds hlds up well also. The lower Yarra Trails are silt based and turn to axle grease. I've even contemplated the indoor trainer they're so bad.
Back on the Handlebar topic - you don't want wide ones for Hans Loop !

 

[Hud]

Not sure of the tread pattern of your current tyres but the Yarra Trails are the worst tracks in Vic to ride on when it's wet. I'd tough it out for the time being. Ride Hans Loop and the St Andrews trails when you get out there. Chances are the tyres you've got will be fine. The last few years mud tyres have hardly been needed, this year has been much wetter. (Actually - a 'normal' winter after many years of drought, but that's another story...)

 

[abevern]

Having ridden Capital Punishment, I feel qualified to comment on the "mud" thing.

1. Yes, it is fun
2. Yes, it absolutely will destroy anything that moves on your bike
3. I can't fault the Kenda Nevegal as a front tire in the mud (also works well on most other surfaces)

I ran a Geax Saguaro on the back, and it also did a great job everywhere excepts the porridge-mud in Deek's Forest.

 

[hilo]

Good to know my under my breath swearing while riding in the mud on those Yarra Trails wasn't unusual given the conditions . . .

Ride Hans Loop and the St Andrews trails when you get out there.

Any chance that someone can point me to the exact location where I can get onto Hans Loop? I did a search on the forums, and get a lot of hits, but they all seem to just mention it without spelling out exactly where it is--somewhere around Westerfolds park?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it--also know as Pink Ribbon. Sometimes patience pays off. Here's the link if anyone else needs it http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?190985-Pink-Ribbon-Yarra-Trails-Time-Trail-Challenge


Thx

Hi Lo

 

[hilo]

Just a quick update--ended up ordering these Answer bars (http://answerproducts.com/components/protaper-720-am) --Dirtworks I think had the wrong length listed for the Raceface which are really 680mm

720's might be a bit long--I will see how I go with them. They do have a lot less sweep though: 8 degrees versus 17 degrees.

I also went and tried Hans Loop. While not perfect in the wet for a beginner like me (there were a few spots I just had to walk around due to the mud), it was generally pretty good and a good place to practice.

I can see what people mean re: handlebar width there. There were some quite narrow parts.

Hi Lo

 

[mtb101]

I also went and tried Hans Loop. While not perfect in the wet for a beginner like me (there were a few spots I just had to walk around due to the mud), it was generally pretty good and a good place to practice.

next to riding with experienced riders, that loop has got it all, climbing, descending, tight and a mini rock garden, great place to skill up.

I can see what people mean re: handlebar width there. There were some quite narrow parts.

funny thing about handlebar width is yes normally I run 580-600mm, when I first got my new 29er I thought wait and see, think the Giant XTC 29 bar width is 690mm something like that. Anyway gave bike a hard slog around Han's Loop no problem with bars ... but you have got to be quite relaxed and place body and bike through tight sections as needed. It's a sort of a shove left right or right left and through method, now this isn't a bad thing as you want to be dynamic on the bike anyway - I still have to do it on my 26er (580mm), just not as much.

But why keep with longer bars I hear you say, well have enjoyed the extra control climbing and descending. I remember years ago when it did worry me, but then I would come up to 2 trees and try and just ride through.

And have you ever hit one tree with your left bar which bashes your right shoulder onto right tree which then means you fall left. A crappy crash.

 

[hilo]

next to riding with experienced riders, that loop has got it all, climbing, descending, tight and a mini rock garden, great place to skill up.

funny thing about handlebar width is yes normally I run 580-600mm, when I first got my new 29er I thought wait and see, think the Giant XTC 29 bar width is 690mm something like that. Anyway gave bike a hard slog around Han's Loop no problem with bars ... but you have got to be quite relaxed and place body and bike through tight sections as needed. It's a sort of a shove left right or right left and through method, now this isn't a bad thing as you want to be dynamic on the bike anyway - I still have to do it on my 26er (580mm), just not as much.

But why keep with longer bars I hear you say, well have enjoyed the extra control climbing and descending. I remember years ago when it did worry me, but then I would come up to 2 trees and try and just ride through.

And have you ever hit one tree with your left bar which bashes your right shoulder onto right tree which then means you fall left. A crappy crash.

Yeah thanks for the tips--one of the great things about MTBs versus road bikes is the ease of swapping handlebars in and out (well apart from the cable ties for my AYUPs). I think I will consider cutting my old bars a bit or getting some specific short bars later.

I will be doing a lot of slow practice first--the other problem I run into is snagging my small little backpack (one of those things with the 3L bladder) on branches as I am so tall and not quite nimble enough (yet). I like this idea of moving my body a bit more than in road cycling.

Anyway, we'll see how the Answer bars go. Hopefully Hans Loop will be a bit drier tomorrow morning as well . . .

Hi Lo

 

[Stevob]

And have you ever hit one tree with your left bar which bashes your right shoulder onto right tree which then means you fall left. A crappy crash.

Did that when I rode that loop last time. 660mm bars. Not changing though.

 

[Hud]

Rock the bike, I say rock the bike!!

 

[Stevob]

Rock the bike, I say rock the bike!!

If I remember correctly, it was more a case something hitting my camelback, which I turned to look at, consequently drifted into a tree, then the ping pong.

Was going a little fast as well.