Noob Question: Tubeless and Speed

[Jesterarts]

Greetings brains-trust.

So as I was procrastinating at work, something dawned on me: I now have Minion tubeless ready tyres, and my Roval Traverse rims are also tubeless ready.

This suggests to me that I am potentially two tubeless valves away from being tubeless.

But, is it worth it?

I read that going tubeless generally helps with tyre compliance and grip at lower pressures and prevents pinch punctures... since there is no tube to pinch.

But for me, I don't think I ride hard enough to notice or care. My riding usually involves doing a lap of Lysty and a couple runs of Aneurysm.

However, if tubeless saved weight and thus allowed me to climb easier or reduced rolling resistance, this would be something of interest to me.

So can someone explain to me if I will get much benefit or if it would be pointless since the benefits are too minor for me to notice.

Thanks in advance and happy Friday!

 

[droenn]

Like you've said, easy to try.

I can't ever remember what its like to run tubes anymore. Lower pressures and more grip gives a pretty clear advantage, over and above any weight savings.

 

[deadlegs]

Greetings brains-trust.



I read that going tubeless generally helps with tyre compliance and grip at lower pressures and prevents pinch punctures... since there is no tube to pinch.

.

Thanks in advance and happy Friday!

happy friyayyyy

you read correct, Ive found the lower pressures helped me with climbing and you get a lot more traction.
if you dont ride to hard you wont have to worry about getting a flat either unless you hit something sharp enough to cut the side of the side wall that the sealant wont seal up.
just do it already.

 

[hairy1]

The biggest benefit for a gumby like me is reliability day to day in terms of thorns / pinch flats.

That said, as far as simplicity and ongoing maintenance goes, running tubeless is more work - you need to set it up (getting easier as tyres/rims are made with tubeless in mind) and it requires ongoing maintenance (replace sealant a few times a year). If you get a catastrophic flat (sidewall tear etc.) you're gonna put a tube in anyway.

So decide how much you care about these things. I reckon it's great.

 

[JTmofo]

Greetings brains-trust.

So as I was procrastinating at work, something dawned on me: I now have Minion tubeless ready tyres, and my Roval Traverse rims are also tubeless ready.

This suggests to me that I am potentially two tubeless valves away from being tubeless.

But, is it worth it?

I read that going tubeless generally helps with tyre compliance and grip at lower pressures and prevents pinch punctures... since there is no tube to pinch.

But for me, I don't think I ride hard enough to notice or care. My riding usually involves doing a lap of Lysty and a couple runs of Aneurysm.

However, if tubeless saved weight and thus allowed me to climb easier or reduced rolling resistance, this would be something of interest to me.

So can someone explain to me if I will get much benefit or if it would be pointless since the benefits are too minor for me to notice.

Thanks in advance and happy Friday!

The answer is always to go tubeless.

Not only does it prevent pinch flats, but it helps with all types of potential flats with the sealant blocking small perforations that would otherwise go flat with tubes.

Reading elsewhere, the average weight saving of tubeless over tubed is between 50 to 100g per wheel.

Lastly, if you don't ride hard enough to get pinch flats/get the goodness from lower pressures, why are you running minions?

Just go something less aggressive and lighter!

 

[Tubbsy]

Tubeless is probably the best thing I've ever done to my bikes.

Pretty easy to have a ride ruined by pinch flats.

Not one flat tyre of any sort, not one, after turning my two bikes tubeless.

Well one, and that was because the sidewall wore through and developed a slow bubbling leak that the sealant wouldn't fix.

 

[Jesterarts]

How does rolling resistance come in to play?

Lower pressure = higher rolling resistance in my mind. Is that correct?

EDIT: Never mind, just found this:
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tubeless-latex-butyl-tubes

Tubeless it is!

 

[Jesterarts]

The answer is always to go tubeless.

Not only does it prevent pinch flats, but it helps with all types of potential flats with the sealant blocking small perforations that would otherwise go flat with tubes.

Reading elsewhere, the average weight saving of tubeless over tubed is between 50 to 100g per wheel.

Lastly, if you don't ride hard enough to get pinch flats/get the goodness from lower pressures, why are you running minions?

Just go something less aggressive and lighter!

They was on special.

 

[hairy1]

While I said I'm a believer, I've destroyed several heavy walled tubeless tyres over the years (unfixable sidewall) and have had a some non-sidewall punctures that the sealant couldn't seal - so I don't think the benefit is as clear as some people make out....

 

[The Duckmeister]

More grip/traction = more speed. Weight doesn't factor in to any great extent. There's a bit of rolling resistance improvement with tubeless because you don't have the friction of the tube squirming against the tyre, but tread pattern vs the dirt makes up a big chunk, and isn't dependent on the means of air retention.

What the article doesn't seem to address is the effect of imperfect real-world surfaces on rolling resistance. Higher-pressure tyres will bounce off the bumps, which has the effect of changing the rotational speed of the wheel in relation to the ground, which then increases surface friction. Softer tyre pressure cuts the bounce, so you're in better contact with the ground, with less interrupted wheel rotation, so better ultimate rolling resistance.

 

[thatsnotme]

How does rolling resistance come in to play?

Lower pressure = higher rolling resistance in my mind. Is that correct?

Assuming you're mainly worried about climbing, tubeless tyres can deform more easily over obstacles like rocks with their lower pressures. Any increase in rolling resistance is going to be offset with more grip and less deflection over obstacles.

 

[Twelve]

There's also something strangely satisfying about knowing you don't have tubes in your tyres.

 

[stirk]

More grip/traction = more speed. Weight doesn't factor in to any great extent. There's a bit of rolling resistance improvement with tubeless because you don't have the friction of the tube squirming against the tyre, but tread pattern vs the dirt makes up a big chunk, and isn't dependent on the means of air retention.

What the article doesn't seem to address is the effect of imperfect real-world surfaces on rolling resistance. Higher-pressure tyres will bounce off the bumps, which has the effect of changing the rotational speed of the wheel in relation to the ground, which then increases surface friction. Softer tyre pressure cuts the bounce, so you're in better contact with the ground, with less interrupted wheel rotation, so better ultimate rolling resistance.

I read an article only recently which was saying that lower pressure in your tyre allowed the tyre to conform to the rough terrain and roll over easier rather than deflect so in effect reduces Rolling resistance. Im sure there is a balance depending on ones weight.

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/info/mtb-tyre-rolling-resistance.htm

 

[deadlegs]

I read an article only recently which was saying that lower pressure in your tyre allowed the tyre to conform to the rough terrain and roll over easier rather than deflect so in effect reduces Rolling resistance. Im sure there is a balance depending on ones weight.

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/info/mtb-tyre-rolling-resistance.htm

Id agree with that!
i found it similar with my first road bike, I was running 120 psi in both tyres. Now i run 80psi in the front and 85 in the rear its much faster and handling it better also.

 

[The Duckmeister]

I read an article only recently which was saying that lower pressure in your tyre allowed the tyre to conform to the rough terrain and roll over easier rather than deflect so in effect reduces Rolling resistance. Im sure there is a balance depending on ones weight.

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/info/mtb-tyre-rolling-resistance.htm

Yep, definitely. Basically a different way of expressing the same conclusion I wrote above.

In roadie-land it's suggested that ideal pressure for any given rider is that which results in the tyres compressing by 15% of their profile height when the rider is on board.

 

[stirk]

Yep, definitely. Basically a different way of expressing the same conclusion I wrote above.

In roadie-land it's suggested that ideal pressure for any given rider is that which results in the tyres compressing by 15% of their profile height when the rider is on board.

I'm always on your page Ducky :love:

15-20℅ sounds about right for mtb also.

I was biting my tongue at a recent event when someone who rides more road than mtb was mentioning the benefits of pumping the tyres right up to 40psi to reduce rolling resistance, he ended up with a flat too! Also heard some chat about pumping tubeless up beyond recommend max psi on tyre to seat the bead, like 80psi, no mention of max recommendation for the rim. I should warm him!

 

[Knuckles]

The biggest benefit for a gumby like me is reliability day to day in terms of thorns / pinch flats.

That said, as far as simplicity and ongoing maintenance goes, running tubeless is more work - you need to set it up (getting easier as tyres/rims are made with tubeless in mind) and it requires ongoing maintenance (replace sealant a few times a year). If you get a catastrophic flat (sidewall tear etc.) you're gonna put a tube in anyway.

So decide how much you care about these things. I reckon it's great.

Setting up a Maxxis tyre tubeless is easier than faffing around with tubes. Lost count of the tubes I've lost from pinching them with levers or beads, never pinch flatted my sealant that way. Unless your name is Jarrod, maxxis tubeless is idiot proof. I've even ghettoed up the 12 and 16" bikes.

There's also something strangely satisfying about knowing you don't have tubes in your tyres.

It's like going in bareback in Thailand....

#knuckleswasadrunkenchunt

 

[Spike-X]

I find that if my tyre pressures are too low when running tubes, that my tyres can feel 'sloppy', for lack of a better word, when cornering hard. Would this still be an issue running tubeless?

 

[JTmofo]

I find that if my tyre pressures are too low when running tubes, that my tyres can feel 'sloppy', for lack of a better word, when cornering hard. Would this still be an issue running tubeless?

Yes......
Squirm is an issue unless you run wide rims and stiff carcass tyres regardless of tubed or tubeless.

 

[Kerplunk]

Everything that has been said above, I haven't ran tubes for the last 5-6 years, can't think of a single advantage running a tube has over tubeless. Especially with maxxis tyres that seal up beautifully.