alchemist
Manly Warringah MTB Club
My video shows what slow looks like.
NSW Enduro Series - Singletrack Mind
- Thread starter Enduro Pulse
- Start date
Mr Pants
skanky media ho
Official response from Chocolate Foot
Gather round people and let's sort this out good and proper.
After consultation with the teams affected in the mixed pairs category we have decided to change the results to what is currently posted on our website.
This decision was made for the following reasons:
Team FRS Stevens have raced the entire series in accordance with the rules and indeed have on previous occasions checked with us they they were within the 35% rule. They're good people and they play fair. On this occasion Emma thought she had recovered from illness and they came to the race in good faith to race the mixed pairs. Emma found that she couldn't ride and moreover to do so could be damaging to her health. We felt that one rider versus teams of 2 would not be an unfair advantage, but we didn't communicate this to the teams that this may have affected and we apologise for that. Conversely the other teams didn't ask us about it either during the event so it wasn't highlighted in our consciousness as a potential issue. Certainly at no point were On Target told they would be awarded 3rd place.
So … yesterday, in between packing up & pulling down bunting, rebuilding fences, cleaning the facilities and picking up rubbish … we considered how this lack of communication may have affected other teams.
We realised that the team that this would most affect was Team Geko-Area 51 and indeed they sent us a lovely email saying they really enjoyed the event but as they presumed that the 2nd place team would be DQ'd that that had backed it off a little in the last few laps. As they only missed 2nd place by 2min 16secs this would seem entirely plausible. For these reasons, we decided to change the results. We have consulted with Team FRS Stevens and they have in hindsight agreed that for these reasons a DQ is a reasonable outcome. We appreciate both teams understanding and it further reassures us that the people who came to the Singletrack Mind Series this year were tops!
Melanie of On Target ('Bitumen' we would assume) sent us an email at 9.33pm on Sunday night and proceeded to post her gripe to the internet at 9.48pm. I think anyone would agree that 15 minutes, late on Sunday night, is an unreasonable timeframe in which to expect a response.
Melanie's point is about the application of our published rules, which must mean that she is unaware that her team did not make the 35% ratio in round 3 of the series, as she only completed 33.3% of her teams laps. But as we thought they're good people and they appear to be racing within the sprit of the rules, we'd let it go so as not to devalue their experience of the event. If Melanie would like us to amend the results for round 3 we would be happy to do so.
A general point on the application of event rules. The application of rules should be to the benefit of good racing. We feel this is key to the spirit of the event and most event promotors reserve the right to apply the rules at their discretion. For example, on Saturday the YetiGu male pairs team turned up with only one rider, and as series podiums were at stake we allowed them to race for a result in their category. This was announced at the rider briefing and there were no complaints. This rider was at no advantage, in the same way as FRS Stevens had no advantage by fielding only one rider. The difference is that the other teams had the knowledge of this and could plan their race strategy accordingly - not the case for the Mixed Pairs teams, which is why we have reversed the decision made on Saturday night. Likewise, we chose to disregard the rule when On Target didn't meet it at Round 3.
None of this affects the placings in the series overall due to the best of 4 rounds scoring system.
While we don't agree with Melanie's account of the situation on Saturday evening, we know it's fruitless to go into a "we said, you said" discussion here - and won't be further responding on this subject in this forum.
What we do know for certain is that on Sunday morning at the Scout campground Melanie was witnessed, after checking the coast was clear (but not spotting the witness!), defacing our vehicle.
Gather round people and let's sort this out good and proper.
After consultation with the teams affected in the mixed pairs category we have decided to change the results to what is currently posted on our website.
This decision was made for the following reasons:
Team FRS Stevens have raced the entire series in accordance with the rules and indeed have on previous occasions checked with us they they were within the 35% rule. They're good people and they play fair. On this occasion Emma thought she had recovered from illness and they came to the race in good faith to race the mixed pairs. Emma found that she couldn't ride and moreover to do so could be damaging to her health. We felt that one rider versus teams of 2 would not be an unfair advantage, but we didn't communicate this to the teams that this may have affected and we apologise for that. Conversely the other teams didn't ask us about it either during the event so it wasn't highlighted in our consciousness as a potential issue. Certainly at no point were On Target told they would be awarded 3rd place.
So … yesterday, in between packing up & pulling down bunting, rebuilding fences, cleaning the facilities and picking up rubbish … we considered how this lack of communication may have affected other teams.
We realised that the team that this would most affect was Team Geko-Area 51 and indeed they sent us a lovely email saying they really enjoyed the event but as they presumed that the 2nd place team would be DQ'd that that had backed it off a little in the last few laps. As they only missed 2nd place by 2min 16secs this would seem entirely plausible. For these reasons, we decided to change the results. We have consulted with Team FRS Stevens and they have in hindsight agreed that for these reasons a DQ is a reasonable outcome. We appreciate both teams understanding and it further reassures us that the people who came to the Singletrack Mind Series this year were tops!
Melanie of On Target ('Bitumen' we would assume) sent us an email at 9.33pm on Sunday night and proceeded to post her gripe to the internet at 9.48pm. I think anyone would agree that 15 minutes, late on Sunday night, is an unreasonable timeframe in which to expect a response.
Melanie's point is about the application of our published rules, which must mean that she is unaware that her team did not make the 35% ratio in round 3 of the series, as she only completed 33.3% of her teams laps. But as we thought they're good people and they appear to be racing within the sprit of the rules, we'd let it go so as not to devalue their experience of the event. If Melanie would like us to amend the results for round 3 we would be happy to do so.
A general point on the application of event rules. The application of rules should be to the benefit of good racing. We feel this is key to the spirit of the event and most event promotors reserve the right to apply the rules at their discretion. For example, on Saturday the YetiGu male pairs team turned up with only one rider, and as series podiums were at stake we allowed them to race for a result in their category. This was announced at the rider briefing and there were no complaints. This rider was at no advantage, in the same way as FRS Stevens had no advantage by fielding only one rider. The difference is that the other teams had the knowledge of this and could plan their race strategy accordingly - not the case for the Mixed Pairs teams, which is why we have reversed the decision made on Saturday night. Likewise, we chose to disregard the rule when On Target didn't meet it at Round 3.
None of this affects the placings in the series overall due to the best of 4 rounds scoring system.
While we don't agree with Melanie's account of the situation on Saturday evening, we know it's fruitless to go into a "we said, you said" discussion here - and won't be further responding on this subject in this forum.
What we do know for certain is that on Sunday morning at the Scout campground Melanie was witnessed, after checking the coast was clear (but not spotting the witness!), defacing our vehicle.
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crank1979
Likes Bikes and Dirt
What do you mean by defacing?
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mittagongmtb
Likes Dirt
Re 'that' dispute from above. Sounds like both parties have presented a view here as best as they see it and both being human may have blind spots. Both seem to have made mistakes - now it behoves them to acknowledge that to each other - most hopefully privately, (so as not to clog this forum) - to seek forgiveness and reconcilliation where necessary, maybe sit down and share a meal sometime and to move on together to next year.
The Chocolate Foot Series has been well received by its participants - we the lucky riders. Congratulations to Fi and Jo and team. Thanks to all the local clubs, landholders, service clubs, various authorities and of course the volunteers, etc for preparation and provisioning of tracks and facilities. Thanks to all fellow riders who also made the racing competitive but not combative, for good manners and engendering a sense of community. I'm looking forward to a few new tracks for next series and maybe our own club may also become involved.
Just a short plug: don't forget the Pirtek 2010 NSW MTB XCO XCC Championship event to be held at Twin Falls, Fitzroy Falls the 30-31st October! All riders - welcome! You don't have to ride at the pointy end of the field to enjoy this track and event. Last year I entered as a 52yo, the event held at Blue Gums just for the fun of it - had a ball.
The Chocolate Foot Series has been well received by its participants - we the lucky riders. Congratulations to Fi and Jo and team. Thanks to all the local clubs, landholders, service clubs, various authorities and of course the volunteers, etc for preparation and provisioning of tracks and facilities. Thanks to all fellow riders who also made the racing competitive but not combative, for good manners and engendering a sense of community. I'm looking forward to a few new tracks for next series and maybe our own club may also become involved.
Just a short plug: don't forget the Pirtek 2010 NSW MTB XCO XCC Championship event to be held at Twin Falls, Fitzroy Falls the 30-31st October! All riders - welcome! You don't have to ride at the pointy end of the field to enjoy this track and event. Last year I entered as a 52yo, the event held at Blue Gums just for the fun of it - had a ball.
DaGonz
Eats Squid
What a tops day! Rocked up with my brand spanking new bike and had Trent from SRAM help me tweak up the new XX kit, some car park suspension tests and I was on the start line!!
It's good to have some fitness back, I think it really makes those 8hr solo's a lot more enjoyable. Certainly Appin was a tonne of fun even if it did feel like you were climbing all day!! 10K course, 2k's I reckon of step ups in the middle that just gave your upper body a thrashing. I had some serious arm and core DOMS yesterday I can tell you
Spent half an hour with Stuart(?) I think from KOM after he face planted it big time off on of the drop offs. I hear he didn't break his arm after all but I think he's lucky he was able to walk out!! Still, managed to get 11 laps in, including a couple of fun laps with dreggsy so happy with that
First warmish weather race for the year. How many people screwed their hydration up? wasn't till the 6 or 7 hour point that I managed to get my cramps to settle down again...
Loved the event centre and the pasta meal at the end. usually soloists get to the finish to find the canteen threadbare
hitting up the 24hr worlds now with a renewed sense of enthusiasm and confidence
ed: I guess that was mr crummy in the leg brace? what have you done to yourself man?
Cheers
Spoonie
It's good to have some fitness back, I think it really makes those 8hr solo's a lot more enjoyable. Certainly Appin was a tonne of fun even if it did feel like you were climbing all day!! 10K course, 2k's I reckon of step ups in the middle that just gave your upper body a thrashing. I had some serious arm and core DOMS yesterday I can tell you
Spent half an hour with Stuart(?) I think from KOM after he face planted it big time off on of the drop offs. I hear he didn't break his arm after all but I think he's lucky he was able to walk out!! Still, managed to get 11 laps in, including a couple of fun laps with dreggsy so happy with that
First warmish weather race for the year. How many people screwed their hydration up? wasn't till the 6 or 7 hour point that I managed to get my cramps to settle down again...
Loved the event centre and the pasta meal at the end. usually soloists get to the finish to find the canteen threadbare
hitting up the 24hr worlds now with a renewed sense of enthusiasm and confidence
ed: I guess that was mr crummy in the leg brace? what have you done to yourself man?
Cheers
Spoonie
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WolfCreekPsycho
Likes Dirt
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Fi
Chocolate Foot
Unfortunately he did break his arm
but when I spoke with him yesterday he said it's a straightforward injury - 6 weeks in a cast and he should be good as new. He's also sporting a very black eye!Great to get the feedback on the event centre - it wasn't easy to achieve that location (dealing with Council etc.). Thanks to Tony Lancaster from WMBC for suggesting the idea to us ... I think! Nah, we were stoked with it, great to see all the local kids come along for the jumping castle and lovely to have a dust-free venue for a bit of a change! The caterers were awesome too, taking a bit of a punt with us as to what would work for that format of event - thankfully they came away happy too!
Nup, Craig Baylis from Enduro Pulse ... who kindly came along as a WMBC volunteer since he couldn't race and is also now out of the Solo Worlds
hiredassassin
Likes Dirt
Anybody got any idea when the photies will be available?
Fi
Chocolate Foot
As soon as we receive a disk from the photographer! Takes a few days for him to go through the images, as you can imagine. We're looking forward to seeing them too and will post here when they're available!
In the meantime, there are some shots from Michael Crummy posted on Facebook, plus Igor sent us a link to his shots - check it out here.
Lesson learnt: Communication tis always the key to a happy event... wonder when AROC will work that one out
Otherwise sounds like you guys are to be congratulated on an otherwise well-run and well-organised event.
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hiredassassin
Likes Dirt
fatnold
Likes Bikes and Dirt
now that is seriously funny.
choc foot
You guys threw out the rule book when you brushed team "on target" aside saying "we make the rules and we can change the rules" when we protested.
I want a fair result and if that means amending round 3 then do so. I wouldn't jump the gun so quickly though. Doing one lap is alot different to just missing out by 1.7%. This isn't the olympics people and that's just petty. If you want to find that 1.7%, it was there, just not recorded. You see I broke my derailleur hanger partway around the course and had to run back with bike over shoulder but had to take shortcuts through the bush and the lap couldn't be counted. So the 1.7% could be counted there. This was reported to the time keepers who were set up adjacent to our tent.
If you still disagree then by all means change it. We didn't qualify for a prize on the day so we didn't take anything away from anyone.
Whilst your amending results, the fact that FRS Stevens received a DNF or no placing for the Appin round also means that they do not qualify for 2nd place in the series. So you have not ammended the results completely. If you had approached us to explain what was going on which you did not do with me, it may not have bothered me so much.
Prizes? Keith has the trophy, I'm sure he'd post it back and just letting everyone know that we weren't presented with a prize at presentation, we stood and watched as the others received theirs. I protested the placing afterwards where we were offered a prize if thats what it meant. Initially refused, they still passed it to us and I said give it to Keith..he deserves it and let him keep it. Any confusion about prizes may have been that I received a prize for being drawn out of the hat as one who had raced all the races and got the "serial offender" prize. That was a jersey and trophy. You only get one trophy as a team so it was nice to end up with one each for some show and tell with friends who weren't there. I also received a jersey, not to seem ungrateful, but it's never gonna fit me,it's enormous. I'll give it away aswell.
So there you go, whatever the results are, so be it, just make them fair and not ridiculous.
It's also obvious who we are but do you really need to stress first and second names?
As for defacing your car, have you got a photo? We'd all love to see it.
I'm going to reply to this once and thats all.
You guys threw out the rule book when you brushed team "on target" aside saying "we make the rules and we can change the rules" when we protested.
I want a fair result and if that means amending round 3 then do so. I wouldn't jump the gun so quickly though. Doing one lap is alot different to just missing out by 1.7%. This isn't the olympics people and that's just petty. If you want to find that 1.7%, it was there, just not recorded. You see I broke my derailleur hanger partway around the course and had to run back with bike over shoulder but had to take shortcuts through the bush and the lap couldn't be counted. So the 1.7% could be counted there. This was reported to the time keepers who were set up adjacent to our tent.
If you still disagree then by all means change it. We didn't qualify for a prize on the day so we didn't take anything away from anyone.
Whilst your amending results, the fact that FRS Stevens received a DNF or no placing for the Appin round also means that they do not qualify for 2nd place in the series. So you have not ammended the results completely. If you had approached us to explain what was going on which you did not do with me, it may not have bothered me so much.
Prizes? Keith has the trophy, I'm sure he'd post it back and just letting everyone know that we weren't presented with a prize at presentation, we stood and watched as the others received theirs. I protested the placing afterwards where we were offered a prize if thats what it meant. Initially refused, they still passed it to us and I said give it to Keith..he deserves it and let him keep it. Any confusion about prizes may have been that I received a prize for being drawn out of the hat as one who had raced all the races and got the "serial offender" prize. That was a jersey and trophy. You only get one trophy as a team so it was nice to end up with one each for some show and tell with friends who weren't there. I also received a jersey, not to seem ungrateful, but it's never gonna fit me,it's enormous. I'll give it away aswell.
So there you go, whatever the results are, so be it, just make them fair and not ridiculous.
It's also obvious who we are but do you really need to stress first and second names?
As for defacing your car, have you got a photo? We'd all love to see it.
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Can we just accept that mistakes get made?
I know this wasn't an ideal situation for anyone... I can see both side of the story here, and I can't see an ideal resolution - all I can see is an argy bargy that will continue and detract from the fact that this was a generally successful event, an event which wouldn't even exist were it not for the efforts of the organisers.
Now I don't think we're ever going to settle who was "right" or what the results should or shouldn't read. The organisers have acknowledged that things could have been handled better - again we're human they may have made the wrong decision at the time or maybe which ever they went they were damned! They already admitted in their earlier post that they should have communicated better.
I'm not saying the organisers were right, nor am I saying the bitumen doesn't have reason to be annoyed. But I think that we've got to remember the nature of our sport means that most events are organised by ordinary people, raced by ordinary people and funded on a shoe string. The good stories (like helping injured riders, fixing lights for other teams last minute, the loan of bikes/tubes/gear) far outweigh the bad.
We know now that the decision by the organisers was made in good faith, whether it was right or wrong. Bitumen also acknowledges that had she known the full situation her reaction may have been different... trouble is things have got angry enough that it's hard to back down an say sorry - hard but not impossible. How about it guys? Can we all just take a deep breath and put it down to a learning experience?
I know this wasn't an ideal situation for anyone... I can see both side of the story here, and I can't see an ideal resolution - all I can see is an argy bargy that will continue and detract from the fact that this was a generally successful event, an event which wouldn't even exist were it not for the efforts of the organisers. Now I don't think we're ever going to settle who was "right" or what the results should or shouldn't read. The organisers have acknowledged that things could have been handled better - again we're human they may have made the wrong decision at the time or maybe which ever they went they were damned! They already admitted in their earlier post that they should have communicated better.
I'm not saying the organisers were right, nor am I saying the bitumen doesn't have reason to be annoyed. But I think that we've got to remember the nature of our sport means that most events are organised by ordinary people, raced by ordinary people and funded on a shoe string. The good stories (like helping injured riders, fixing lights for other teams last minute, the loan of bikes/tubes/gear) far outweigh the bad.
We know now that the decision by the organisers was made in good faith, whether it was right or wrong. Bitumen also acknowledges that had she known the full situation her reaction may have been different... trouble is things have got angry enough that it's hard to back down an say sorry - hard but not impossible. How about it guys? Can we all just take a deep breath and put it down to a learning experience?