Observations of mountain biking from the past 30 years

[Calvin27]

Anecdotally, there does seem to be a lot more stories of injuries etc coming out of that place even with the massive increase in numbers. I won't ride there anymore - the post above about not having tolerance for this BS is spot on. I feel like a lot of newer riders have skipped a whole step of riding on fireroads to build fitness and bike handling, because its 'not MTB', shredding looks easy on Youtube and they want instant gratification.

I know a fair few roadies who went straight to blue trails and straight to the ground. They shred one berm and then the next the wheel gives out and they end up on the ground. Usually expensive rigs so good for us second hand buyers. Same with newbs. What's not to love, blood on a used bike cleans off easy.

 

[slimjim1]

I know a fair few roadies who went straight to blue trails and straight to the ground. They shred one berm and then the next the wheel gives out and they end up on the ground. Usually expensive rigs so good for us second hand buyers. Same with newbs. What's not to love, blood on a used bike cleans off easy.

This as well , too many people starting out on 15k super bikes .

Longer term better off starting off on a hard tail with flat pedals.

 

[pink poodle]

Tell that to the poor kids who spend their entire school holidays making sick features only for the council to bulldoze them!

I gave some of my local youths invaluable assistance during the covid lockdown (I knew 1 of the rapscallions and a couple of their dads, so not too scary for them). They were building some small jumps in a park near my house that I was commuting through frequently. I witnessed their great struggle! Jump goes up, jump comes down...fucking Karen's everywhere! But near where they were building was a thicket of thin paperbacks. "Trust me on this boys, if you build your jump line in those trees no council worker is going to knock them down. They won't be able to get their machine in there and are definitely too lazy to do it by hand." Well those kids enjoyed those jumps until lockdown ended and they forgot they liked riding bikes.

I stand by my claim. Everyone is standing back waiting for "them" to fix it, whoever "them" is. This has been fuelled grants and trail building companies doing the work, criminalisation of trail fairies, and selfish noobs that have never had to scratch their own trail out of the forest because someone has already done it for them.








Not that I have ever or would ever engage in unsanctioned trail work. That shit is bad bad bad, and also naughty.

 

[Plankosaurus]

Na, just to a few previous comments about grants and insurance.
I'd love to not need the insurance and I wish we didn't have to write grant applications and Parks RAAs and the like but those are the cards we are delt with.

Fwiw, I don't hate grants, I just don't like the focus and effort that seems to be put into that direction. I'm not prepared to offer up an alternative though, or start up my own club, so I just decided to bow out and let the thing take the direction it's going to take.

Also agree that insurance is a necessary evil. So is child safe policies and WWCC. I don't like any of this and it irks me stupid that people can't just get out and ride anymore, but that's the world we live in and I sure as shit don't know how to fix it. When a club has to defend itself in court because someone took a fall at an official event, you realize how important insurance is. It doesn't matter if it has no substance and gets thrown out, the fact is that there's more than enough people out there lacking entirely in personal responsibility that we'll always have to worry about this crap. Insurance and permits and memberships and policies to get 10-15 kids out for a casual ride is fucking ludicrous, we have to do it though ‍

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[Calvin27]

When a club has to defend itself in court because someone took a fall at an official event, you realize how important insurance is.

Apparently NZ have some sort of system there where the law prevents people suing for their own risk taking. Anecdotal, but imagine that!

 

[Stredda]

Fwiw, I don't hate grants, I just don't like the focus and effort that seems to be put into that direction. I'm not prepared to offer up an alternative though, or start up my own club, so I just decided to bow out and let the thing take the direction it's going to take.

Also agree that insurance is a necessary evil. So is child safe policies and WWCC. I don't like any of this and it irks me stupid that people can't just get out and ride anymore, but that's the world we live in and I sure as shit don't know how to fix it. When a club has to defend itself in court because someone took a fall at an official event, you realize how important insurance is. It doesn't matter if it has no substance and gets thrown out, the fact is that there's more than enough people out there lacking entirely in personal responsibility that we'll always have to worry about this crap. Insurance and permits and memberships and policies to get 10-15 kids out for a casual ride is fucking ludicrous, we have to do it though ‍

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Yes, same goes from here. We do the odd "come and try day" and some skills sessions and it's a thin line to what we need insurance for and what we don't as I hate trying to get new riders to come along, only to slug them with bloody AusCycling membership fees.

Apparently NZ have some sort of system there where the law prevents people suing for their own risk taking. Anecdotal, but imagine that!

NZ has the Accident Compensation Corporation and is the sole and compulsory provider of accident insurance in New Zealand for all work and non-work related injuries. Technically it's still insurance but everyone pays for it through taxes.

 

[bigdamo]

I think the growth of the sport, especially since COVID and the changes in trail design have a lot to answer for.

There is just too many people throwing themselves in the deep end and/or not taking personal responsibility and/or not appreciating the risks. Not just riders but also people who are allowing their young children to play on MTB trails etc (numerous stories from Stromlo of riders injured with kids playing on landers of jump trails). Or the story about the Karen who went off at Handlebar staff because they did not provide a first aid kit for injured child/hubby.

Anecdotally, there does seem to be a lot more stories of injuries etc coming out of that place even with the massive increase in numbers. I won't ride there anymore - the post above about not having tolerance for this BS is spot on. I feel like a lot of newer riders have skipped a whole step of riding on fireroads to build fitness and bike handling, because its 'not MTB', shredding looks easy on Youtube and they want instant gratification.

Flow trails - The speeds you can easily achieve on some of these downhill flow trails with minimal effort is ludicrous IMO. There's too much of a false sense of security IMO. More natural trail designs regulate speed better and require more effort and a more thoughtful approach to riding. Also wear much better and require less maintenance. I remember a thread on here about Hero trail being closed down shortly after being built due to the big increase in injuries - even though 'gnarlier' trails already existed there.

E bikes are just a part of this. Arguably shuttling as well. Lowering the fitness/effort barrier.

The industry of course is loving all the extra $$$.

Yep flow trails I went and bought a full face helmet for them and I ride up to the top. There is some incredible speeds you can on them and if you stop and have a look for the most part there is no margin for error on them. I ride a new trail very slow the first time I'll even get off and look at lines or see what other riders are doing espically on blind jumps. I don't see many riders doing this. I can kind of understand espically if your on holiday and new to the area with a bunch of budies all geed up.You ain't going to spend alot of time getting to know the lay of the land.It takes me at least 4 rides down a trail getting to know it before I'm comfortable on it. Maybe I'm getting to old.

Can you blame social media for the instant gratification for going BIG and NARLY and you get more likes if your got an image from hospital with a broken bone.

 

[Calvin27]

Yep flow trails I went and bought a full face helmet for them and I ride up to the top. There is some incredible speeds you can on them and if you stop and have a look for the most part there is no margin for error on them.

The number 2 trail at harcourt rings a bell, and I think that was mostly before ebikes became mainstream meaning it was mostly somewhat experienced riders. Even then it was very frequent that folks would full bin it and hurt themselves bad. Trail wasn't hard, just really easy to build up speed and make a wrong move. Soft sand landings also probably played a part.

 

[Mattyp]

Apparently NZ have some sort of system there where the law prevents people suing for their own risk taking.

Its called common sense... if 100 people ride a trail, and 1 crashes and breaks their neck, its not the tracks fault... unfortunately no-one wants to take responsibility for their actions. You're riding a bike at speed on the side of a hill, the risk is there you could fuck up, any part of your equipment could fail, @rockmoose could set a trap and you could get seriously hurt...don't act shocked when it happens.
If you knew 100% that there was no risk or you would never fall / get hurt, would you still do it?

 

[slowmick]

The chances are never zero...

 

[bigdamo]

I think the grading of some trails is abit vague. There is one place I ride I think some of the blacks are more like blue and some blues are more like blacks. There is a green trail there I think should be a blue. It does have alot of jumps on it and I'm not that good on those anymore. But I remember the first time i rode it I was surprised at the gap jumps also I wasn't fully focused being a green trail and all. I thought it was just a simple feeder trail to the head of the main trails.

 

[mike14]

Apparently NZ have some sort of system there where the law prevents people suing for their own risk taking. Anecdotal, but imagine that!

Don't we pretty much have this too? That's why most mtb parks will have some kind of 'ride at own risk' sign somewhere, plus i think cycling has an inherited amount of risk in the eyes of the law. I think most parks are covered under some kind of 'the outdoors can be dangerous' clause.
That doesn't mean that you can't sue if there's been clear negligence involved, but that's a pretty high bar to clear

 

[Scotty T]

E bikes are just a part of this. Arguably shuttling as well. Lowering the fitness/effort barrier.

The industry of course is loving all the extra $$$.

Shuttling for a whole day is very hard work and you do get gooder the more runs you do so I wouldn't put it totally in the lowering fitness/effort bag. Got some riding pals who mostly shuttle, they are faster than me down hills and outlasted me the last shuttle day I did with them.

Flow trails, a love hate reationship for me. My last big off was on Luge, I got given a pass for my 50th last year, first go ate shit bad and have not used the pass since. It was something like my 67th effort on it, having not fallen before.

I can ride the entirety of Breakout with 2-3 pedals on the entry corner and no more, which I absolutely love, did it yesterday, so fun.

I was surprised at the gap jumps also I wasn't fully focused being a green trail and all. I thought it was just a simple feeder trail to the head of the main trails.

Yeah green trails generally don't have gaps you can't go around. At Thredbo the green trails are not difficult features as such, but the steepness makes them not green IMHO.

 

[beeb]

If you knew 100% that there was no risk or you would never fall / get hurt, would you still do it?

Fark yeah, and I'd start hitting the big gap jumps too! (Or just proper gap jumps in general, lol)

But I get what you're trying to say.

 

[jrewing]

I dont mind E-bikers. I just make a little dirtbike noise to myself and laugh a little and continue on as they pass me. Theyre having fun and i am too. Nice.
My opinion is i dont like the ride they offer Down hill.

 

[mark22]

The boat that gives back to the trails.

You are 50% of the problem and 50% of the solution it seems, so you're even
Oops sorry meant to reply to @Stredda

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Thankfully we're in that 6% and with both Mrs George and I on the executive committee we intend to keep it that way. We both know our club is in the middle of Butt Fuck Nowhere and our intention is to put on the best show we have the resources for, not to make money out of it.

One of the other executives wants trail builders to come in and turn our park in to Wonderland. I'm dead against it. Our park is flat already, with a few hand built features, there's nothing I've seen machine built that we don't already have. I'm already preparing myself to be disappointed with what they've done to the Forrest trails. He also keeps wanting to target caravan parks to get their riders in. Again, fuck off. Yes, visitors are more than welcome, but one time riders do nothing for supporting what we're doing.

And the insurance thing. We're affiliated with a Memorial Sporting Club and they provide a significant amount of funds, so if they say cower to the insurance gods, we really don't have a choice.

Feel free to tell the fuckwit to get fucked...or I'll come back and be a trail fairy.

 

[oliosky]

Don't we pretty much have this too? That's why most mtb parks will have some kind of 'ride at own risk' sign somewhere, plus i think cycling has an inherited amount of risk in the eyes of the law. I think most parks are covered under some kind of 'the outdoors can be dangerous' clause.
That doesn't mean that you can't sue if there's been clear negligence involved, but that's a pretty high bar to clear

no. The NZ model is distinctly different to ours. Foundation of the NZ model is based on removing the capacity to sue Doctors when things go awry and hinges on the premise of “no fault compensation” - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5198606/#:~:text=NEW%20ZEALAND'S%20NO%2DFAULT%20ALTERNATIVE&text=The%20scheme%20provides%20assistance%20with,been%20covered%20under%20the%20scheme.

The Australian system is nowhere near this.

 

[mike14]

no. The NZ model is distinctly different to ours. Foundation of the NZ model is based on removing the capacity to sue Doctors when things go awry and hinges on the premise of “no fault compensation” - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5198606/#:~:text=NEW%20ZEALAND'S%20NO%2DFAULT%20ALTERNATIVE&text=The%20scheme%20provides%20assistance%20with,been%20covered%20under%20the%20scheme.

The Australian system is nowhere near this.

Oh, it's like medicate and workers comp rolled into one and beefed out? That's cool.

Surely it doesn't cover for negligence though, which is what I assume mtb clubs are worried about when it comes to insurance. Otherwise there'd be absolutely no onus on organisations for risk mitigation.

 

[Oddjob]

I got my first MTB a rigid Giant Yukon when I was ~10, so 35 years ago. I got my first 'proper' MTB in the early 2000s, an Avanti D8 which got stolen in 2009. God I miss that bike. So here are my observations.

The rad:
-MTB races. Almost every MTB event I have been to has been awesome. Super friendly people, lots of fun, and some true bucket list experiences like doing the dawn patrol at a CORC 24 and the Peru Megavalanche.

-Good disc brakes. All hail the Grimeca 8/XT M755. How on earth did people used to do DH/steeps/jank without good disc brakes?

-Good tyres. As much as I hate the French, they make good tires. Thankyou Bibendum.

-Dropper posts. Not as transformative as the disc brake or good tyres but super happy not to have to stop before and after every steep.

-Proper sizing and geometry. Pole and Geomotron have some pretty polarising leaders but thankfully they were big enough jerks to challenge the status quo.

The shit:

-Ever changing standards. I get the concept of designed obsolescence but it still shits me to tears.

-Entitled shitheads. Rather than harp on about e-bikes and greenies and public liability, let's focus on the key problem. People should just pull their head in a bit more.

Trails are wet and you feel like a ride? stay the fuck off your e-bike and go and fix some of those ruts. MTBs are in some of your favourite green spaces? Lobby to increase urban density and bike lanes instead of roads and get more lovely green spaces. Entering a race that you didn't fully prepare for? Make sure your health/life/income insurance is up to scratch and don't blame other people for your incompetence. Even better, volunteer as a marshall while you recover.

-Sausage fests. MTB isn't alone in being a total gay bears dream, but there is only so much fat middle aged man flesh I can handle. I would love to see some money taken away from professional sport (NRL/AFL I'm looking at you) and given to school cycling programs and get more kids and especially girls into MTB.

-1x drivetrains. SRAM should be taken out the back and beaten mercilessly with a rubber hose until they look like Bolognese sauce. Let's convince people they should pay $500 for a pizza sized cassette that weighs a shit tonne. In return their left thumb can get a bit more rest. Then we will introduce a really shit dropper post that forces that left thumb to do heaps more work. Genius!

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