Parking infringement notice - one for the brains trust

[foxpuppet]

What's the go with parking fines, should they be left on the vehicle or just posted to you after the fact?

Reason I ask is I got a fine posted to me in the mail from Lane cove council for a no stopping within 10m of an intersection, I'm prepping myself to contest it but I've been thrown a nice back stabbing curveball.

I've been parking in the street adjacent to a jobsite which is well signposted and no issue as I park within the allowed spots. another construction job has started nearby and meant parking is now at a premium. So I parked in the exact same position I've been parking but in the street that runs parallel (basically other end of the block.

Blissfully unaware I'm breaking the rules (as all the streets are signposted the same, I get a fine in the mail (not on the car) telling me - no stopping 10m of intersection - $242

So I check the streets around, every street has a sign except this one (a deadend street) so you can park as close as 1m with a sign there, but in this one 10m back from the corner as the sign is missing.

I decide yep no probs, clearly I've done the wrong thing but then I get a reminder notice..... Not for this fine but another one from 2 days prior to what I thought for the exact same thing.

If I'd have known about the first 'offence' I wouldn't have parked there again. But by sending the fine in the mail, I'm left unaware I've done anything wrong.

What should I do to try and contest it?

 

[pink poodle]

I once bunny hoped the gutter to avoid being ran down by a car...I landed rather close to a police officer, who grabbed me and took some details. He was rather unhappy at nearly being knocked down (I can only assume I upset his recent intake of coffee and donuts). I received a notice in the mail a few weeks later and duly paid my fine. Then received a reminder about an unpaid fine...that I never received. I inquired and it turned out that a similar fine by the same officer had been submitted, but missing almost all details. To me it sounded like the dirty dog had submitted 2 fines to teach me a lesson. I paid both and continue to ride on the footpath when the road is unsafe. You should contest, but it will get nowhere. the system hates you and everything bermshot says is true.

 

[ashes_mtb]

Depends on the legislation, but typically they can be mailed.

Don't contest unless you have solid grounds or want to pay more in court costs.

 

[foxpuppet]

Depends on the legislation, but typically they can be mailed.

Don't contest unless you have solid grounds or want to pay more in court costs.

You can seek a review without going that far. They openly state that less than 4% of reviews get you anywhere.

I'm (un) happy to pay one but 2 is too much.

 

[pharmaboy]

Ouch.

How did you not know though that that is an illegal park? Really really close to the intersection, making traffic turning left likely to either hit your car or have to go on the wrong side of the road to get past. The twice is unlucky, but I wouldn't be thinking there is any defence to that - if you were 8.5m from the intersection, then there'd be an argument, but you'd be lucky to be 2m from it (hence the fine)

 

[DJninja]

Did you knock the sign down before or after you got the fines?

If before it sounds like one of those cases you can plead ignorance on. Write a letter to their legal explaining that you never would of parked there had you known it was prohibited. Some others in this thread have said that knowledge is ubiquitous so you might be f'ed.

Actually I'm not sure I comprehend the signage situation in your post. Good luck.

 

[ashes_mtb]

You can seek a review without going that far. They openly state that less than 4% of reviews get you anywhere.

I'm (un) happy to pay one but 2 is too much.

Seeking a review is different from contesting in court. Usually you'd need to demonstrate an error or extenuating circumstances to get one rescinded (such as having a heart attack and being rushed to hospital).

 

[stirk]

Rules and signs are fucking upside down.

Signs let you park right on a pedestrian crossing but in the learners book it's 20/10 meters either side if unsigned, it's all about the signs and exemptions to the rules.

The 'no sign we fine' is a cheap way to raise revenue. chunts

 

[stirk]

Ouch.

How did you not know though that that is an illegal park? Really really close to the intersection, making traffic turning left likely to either hit your car or have to go on the wrong side of the road to get past. The twice is unlucky, but I wouldn't be thinking there is any defence to that - if you were 8.5m from the intersection, then there'd be an argument, but you'd be lucky to be 2m from it (hence the fine)

It's not an illegal park in so many built up cities, heaps of room, just no sign.

I've lived in Sydney's inner suburbs to know this is a fine place to park. So much room there it's a luxury!

 

[thatsnotme]

Ask why there's a 9 minute difference in the two timestamps on the photos, insisting that at 12.30pm you were out to lunch and couldn't possibly have been parked there?

 

[Knuckles]

I'd say you're done. Looking at the pic, you're only just off the splay. Any unsigned position like that is automatically a 10m rule. Just like you need to be 1m from a driveway crossover, despite having no signs either side.



Parking maggots do target spots with construction, as it's easy pickings.

 

[foxpuppet]

I'd say you're done. Looking at the pic, you're only just off the splay. Any unsigned position like that is automatically a 10m rule. Just like you need to be 1m from a driveway crossover, despite having no signs either side.



Parking maggots do target spots with construction, as it's easy pickings.

Yeah it's easy to see I'm close to the corner, however on the same intersection there are no stopping signs at 1m, 3m and 6m respectively from the corners. On the streets that run parallel where I've normally been parking they are 1m,2m and 3m from the corner. So I parked in basically the same way I have been for the past month only to get booked. Now I can see that's an offense under the rules and had I been issued a fine on the spot I'd have happily seen my error, paid the fine and never parked there again.... But by posting it to me, I've not had the opportunity to see the error of my ways (which is the point of the fine in the first place right) and been fined again.

 

[Boom King]

Yeah it's easy to see I'm close to the corner, however on the same intersection there are no stopping signs at 1m, 3m and 6m respectively from the corners. On the streets that run parallel where I've normally been parking they are 1m,2m and 3m from the corner. So I parked in basically the same way I have been for the past month only to get booked. Now I can see that's an offense under the rules and had I been issued a fine on the spot I'd have happily seen my error, paid the fine and never parked there again.... But by posting it to me, I've not had the opportunity to see the error of my ways (which is the point of the fine in the first place right) and been fined again.

Unfortunately, ignorance of the regulations doesn't form a valid defence. It's a standard road regulation that you are expected to know before obtaining a license to drive a motor vehicle.

 

[foxpuppet]

Here's some pics from a quick google maps fly around where the offense took place.

St Lawrence st, Greenwich

 

[Knuckles]

Yeah it's easy to see I'm close to the corner, however on the same intersection there are no stopping signs at 1m, 3m and 6m respectively from the corners. On the streets that run parallel where I've normally been parking they are 1m,2m and 3m from the corner. So I parked in basically the same way I have been for the past month only to get booked. Now I can see that's an offense under the rules and had I been issued a fine on the spot I'd have happily seen my error, paid the fine and never parked there again.... But by posting it to me, I've not had the opportunity to see the error of my ways (which is the point of the fine in the first place right) and been fined again.

Not denying it's a dirty way to issue, in the hopes of getting repeat business, but I know of more than a few tarts who toss their window notice Es and try to claim they never got it.

Moonee Ponds council in Melbourne do it all electronically, don't even bother with parking inspectors.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Parking maggots do target spots with construction, as it's easy pickings.

It's only easy picking because these pricks don't know or care about the law, would not mind a few more inspectors roaming around my subburb.

I call the council and they do send someone out, multiple construction sites in my street, I love having to push a pram across a nature strip onto the road to get around them, or not being able to see at an intersection because someone thinks it's find to park right on the intersection.

Contest the fine, if the courts busy you wont even be heard and they'll waive it, although you'll miss a day of work and perhaps also be found guilty and end up paying more.

 

[pharmaboy]

Those pics on google are entirely consistant with what I'd expect, and show exactly why you were booked. The blue car in your google pic is also illegally parked, but where the signs are are entirely consistant - there is pretty much one car space left at each intersection ( the angled one is clearly a different situation)

They will not help you one bit in a court. It's possible you were booked by a council officer/police officer not on duty with a ticket book - ie drove by, and thought fuck that and took some photos , then processed later. I've seen general duties police do something similar with timed clear ways - ie just take photo from and back , then leave.

It's unlucky, but I still can't believe you don't know that's illegal - hell I've parked illegally, and breath a sigh of relief when I don't get booked, and often within 10m of a corner - but never within 2m if a corner. That's the thing, they do show a fair bit of leniency - you can always park at 8m from the corner and never get bothered, but when your entire car is within 10m, that leniency is gone

 

[SummitFever]

I seem to recall that in NSW there are some regs dealing with multiple bookings on speed cameras to avoid the situation that you get done multiple times without knowing and then end up with losing your licence. It may be worth investigating if there is a similar provision in relation to multiple parking tickets.

 

[JTmofo]

This really is a shitty and sneaky way to raise revenue, but ignorance of the rules is no defense unfortunately.

RMS parking rules "You must not stop your vehicle (that is, bring it to a stop and either stay with the vehicle or leave it parked) in the following circumstances

:Within 10m of an intersecting road at an intersection without traffic lights unless a sign allows you to park there"

Back to your original question, I've never had a parking infringement notice, but my street has 4hr limited parking.
The local rangers always leave infringement notices on the windscreens of the vehicles.
I think this is a far better and more transparent way to notify the person that they have breached the rules. Sending a letter after the fact is shithouse...... and I'd be pretty pissed off if i was you.

 

[pharmaboy]

I seem to recall that in NSW there are some regs dealing with multiple bookings on speed cameras to avoid the situation that you get done multiple times without knowing and then end up with losing your licence. It may be worth investigating if there is a similar provision in relation to multiple parking tickets.

Good point - I think it was to do with demerit points being accumulated and thus someone could lose their license without even knowing it. If it was in the exact same spot, I'd send a letter, pointing out you are guilty of an offence ( always admit) and would have not parked there a second time had you known it was illegal.

It's worth a try, and for the reasons outlined above, I think going to court is a waste of time and money - ask for mercy from an administrator, you never know