Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

droenn

Likes Bikes and Dirt
So we've all seen those standard deviation graphs? I hadn't until recently.

Most of us are uninformed.
Bombarding with data and graphs does not work, and has not worked, and is where us scientists really failed in communication.

In today's world a theory means "I have an idea" and consensus means "some people think", and its very hard to speak to the individual when they are being hit with "opinions" from all over, and typically gravitate towards the loudest voices shouting "its not real". Why? because it is far easier to accept something that means you don't have change your behavior than something that tells you do. And the media doesn't help with their ideas of "balance" which normally means taking the two polar opposite views, no matter that the weight of evidence lies one one side, and the other side is someone who probably just runs a forum on talking about how the moon-landing was fake.

The other aspect is that human life is short, and climate records are long. Its hard to get your mind around the timescales things used to happen, versus now. This actually used to be a lot of the problem with debating creationists and intelligent design proponents, they just don't understand the vast difference in scale that most geological time periods actually went for.

So, I take some solace when weather records get broken - its far easier to communicate that to people: "yes its hot now and we haven't had it this hot before (shut up about the Federation drought, and1939 and the 60s), and YOU are living in it".
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Yeah but it's either present science & facts & stuff or just start telling people what to do?

Education should solve incoherent ideas.
 

droenn

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah but it's either present science & facts & stuff or just start telling people what to do?

Education should solve incoherent ideas.
Education can help with empowering people, and lead to better choices - but that takes some time.

The grim reality is that a proper response to climate change will eventually happen (perhaps when the next generation takes the helm?), but will come too late to prevent irreversible damage (on an ecologically relevant time-scale, at least).

I realise that I come across quite pessimistic in all this - I'd love to be proven wrong!
 

Haakon

Not happy, Jan.
Last I heard, the best guess for when the fundamental tipping point was reached and unstoppable feedback loops kicked in was probably sometime in the 70s or early 80s.

The oceans have proved to be an incredible heatsink and have insulated the atmosphere from most of it to date. They're nearing saturation and the atmosphere is suddenly seeing more. The cyclones have been hinting at the massive additional heat in the oceans for a while though.

 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Education can help with empowering people, and lead to better choices - but that takes some time.

The grim reality is that a proper response to climate change will eventually happen (perhaps when the next generation takes the helm?), but will come too late to prevent irreversible damage (on an ecologically relevant time-scale, at least).

I realise that I come across quite pessimistic in all this - I'd love to be proven wrong!
Nah, realistic.

I believe no greater good conscious decisions will be made re: CC, not at the level needed to plunge towards zero emissions.

I think war & famine will be rife before we sort this shit out appropriately.
 

Dales Cannon

Adminerotic
Staff member
Nah, realistic.

I believe no greater good conscious decisions will be made re: CC, not at the level needed to plunge towards zero emissions.

I think war & famine will be rife before we sort this shit out appropriately.
Unfortunately I think you are right. Isolated places will get their shit in order but neither of the parties that will gain power here have what it takes to effect meaningful change.
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
It is good news.

But.

Did you know that in 2018 the FF CO2 emissions added up to 2% of all cumulative emissions in the last 170 years.

We need waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than closing Germany's coal power stations at a future date.

We need to get to a zero emissions standpoint in the next ten years or so. No shit, it's that diabolically bad. You won't read about how catastrophic the situation is unless you leave the media & read scientific information.

Can't scare the population or be negative, love.
 

John U

MTB Precision
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John U

MTB Precision
It is good news.

But.

Did you know that in 2018 the FF CO2 emissions added up to 2% of all cumulative emissions in the last 170 years.

We need waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than closing Germany's coal power stations at a future date.

We need to get to a zero emissions standpoint in the next ten years or so. No shit, it's that diabolically bad. You won't read about how catastrophic the situation is unless you leave the media & read scientific information.

Can't scare the population or be negative, love.
We’re fucked. The huge majority is too self absorbed to notice. They won’t catch on until, there’s fuck all food left, there’s an outbreak of global chaos because there’s not enough food left.
 
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John U

MTB Precision
You're wrong. But only because you believe we aren't collectively smart enough to adapt.
I believe we're collectively smart enough to change our ways, but not in time time to avoid a shit storm from climate change. If we were smart enough we would have significantly changed our ways 10, 15, 20 years ago.
I think we over estimate our ability to adapt too. I don' t think the human race will be wiped out, just a fair proportion of it.

Disproportionate influences have made changing for climate change extremely difficult for us. We spent a lot of our evolutionary history in small groups. Our smarts are having issues sorting shit from clay as big groups.

Again, would love to be wrong.
 

pink poodle

Clinically Inane
I know that saying well but rarely hear it used. Indeed, Merkel is not in the spider shagging business. Too bad Australia is so far behind.
This will send Australia broke! Jobs will be lost, tax revenues will fall, and our standard of living will be impacted. We can risk that, we are rich! Coal must go on...it's a natural product.
 
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