Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

Calvin27

Likes Bikes and Dirt
What moves have you made with your life style to reduce your reliance on a car or other motorised vehicle @Calvin27?
Not sure what the relevance is, but I've gone from 2 cars and 1 track toy, down to a 1 car household (and about 8 bicycles). A crappy little honda that will probably work like a sweatshop worker until the day it dies. Does maybe 8000kms a year and most of that would be because none of our MTB parks are not easily accessible by train.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
They know it's not profitable in our economic times, how about making these large corporate giants that profiteer from the plastic products put money towards the recycling side of things.
 

pink poodle

Clinically Inane
Yeah that's the problem, no one is overseeing what's going on. Give grants away for recycling and send the stuff overseas and close our eyes.
So it isn't the goverment we can't trust, but the private enterprises supposedly doing the recycling. Actually we can't really trust anyone on this stuff. Sadly the whole thing is being ran on a $$$ basis still.

I recently went on a "no you can't have that in a take away and dine in" mission...so many customers with sad eyes about it. In the end I've been told to give up and use disposable items more to reduce the piles of washing and making life easier at the end of the day.
 

pink poodle

Clinically Inane
Not sure what the relevance is, but I've gone from 2 cars and 1 track toy, down to a 1 car household (and about 8 bicycles). A crappy little honda that will probably work like a sweatshop worker until the day it dies. Does maybe 8000kms a year and most of that would be because none of our MTB parks are not easily accessible by train.
Relevance is you were moaning about cars...it does seem you've put the work in though, so well done. Where do you live? From my place (Newcastle) I can access a small but suitable number of riding location either on bike or bike+train, provided I'm prepared to put in some time in the saddle.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
So it isn't the goverment we can't trust, but the private enterprises supposedly doing the recycling. Actually we can't really trust anyone on this stuff. Sadly the whole thing is being ran on a $$$ basis still.

I recently went on a "no you can't have that in a take away and dine in" mission...so many customers with sad eyes about it. In the end I've been told to give up and use disposable items more to reduce the piles of washing and making life easier at the end of the day.
Why give funding or grants for recycling when it rarely happens though, is anyone going to check that it doesn't go into a big hole in the ground.

I think the Govt has every bit of responsibility as the businesses involved to make sure the right things are going on. The Govt needs to put it's money where it's mouth is and run some of these recycling plants. Recycle the stuff here at our cost, it's our rubbish if not possible look for other ways.
 

Calvin27

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Relevance is you were moaning about cars...it does seem you've put the work in though, so well done. Where do you live?
I watch in envy at some of the folks on here with nice country blocks but unfortunately commuting would kill it for me, I'm about 15kms east of Melbourne.

I wasn't ranting about cars and fuel use though, I accept that the society we have built is heavily car dependent and it's unfair to expect the population to change given we built the infrastructure around roads. My concern was more that all these aggressive fuel efficiency measures (ala euro) have had some very perverse outcomes. We've had most of Europe waste a decade on diesels when they forgot about nox and now we are counting fuel use but forgetting the embodied energy of wasting cars because they are too expensive to fix. It was more from a waste angle rather than energy.
 

pink poodle

Clinically Inane
I'm all for the government running recycling. I'm all for them leading in developing and implementing new environmentally sound energy technology. I'm also happy for them to buy up and shut down mines, coal fired power stations, and a bunch of other stuff (like nsw gov buying up houses with loose fill asbestos insulation). But I wasn't the one saying:

"This is why you can't trust this Government with recycling"

We probably need to make it clearer to the governement that these are issues the electorate take seriously. But I wouldn't want to risk a budget surplus just to try and save humanity...
 

pink poodle

Clinically Inane
I watch in envy at some of the folks on here with nice country blocks but unfortunately commuting would kill it for me, I'm about 15kms east of Melbourne.

I wasn't ranting about cars and fuel use though, I accept that the society we have built is heavily car dependent and it's unfair to expect the population to change given we built the infrastructure around roads. My concern was more that all these aggressive fuel efficiency measures (ala euro) have had some very perverse outcomes. We've had most of Europe waste a decade on diesels when they forgot about nox and now we are counting fuel use but forgetting the embodied energy of wasting cars because they are too expensive to fix. It was more from a waste angle rather than energy.
It all goes into the same basket though...pollution.

I hear there isn't much in the way of easy access riding around Melbourne. How can such a place be so "world's greatest city?" without bike trails?

When did diesel switch from being the poster boy of fuel efficiency to the evil step mother? Wasn't it only a few years ago that diesel cars were going to save us all?
 

Haakon

Not happy, Jan.
I met a fellow who investigates illegal dumping. Old tyres are a huge problem for this, apparently there is a well known Valley of used tyres that can be seen on google maps. I haven't verified the story so it may just be a myth.
I worked for the EPA in a past life and did a lot of this. There are illegal dumps everywhere, farmers are the worst offenders.
 

LPG

Likes Dirt
I believe all waste and pollution ahould be paid up front. Figure out the cost to fix the waste or pollution and add that to the product when something is purchased, whether it is a plastic bag, car or electricity. This money goes to fixing the issues we've caused with our consumption.

People aren't trusted to be responsible for much simpler things in society. Why have them responsible for their waste? (Probably because corporations and their political power would have to be responsible too).

Anyone have any idea how to get the whole world agree to this at onece so no countries feel like they are putting themselves at a disadvantage by implementing this?
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Please read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/23/greta-thunberg-full-speech-to-mps-you-did-not-act-in-time



My name is Greta Thunberg. I am 16 years old. I come from Sweden. And I speak on behalf of future generations.

I know many of you don’t want to listen to us – you say we are just children. But we’re only repeating the message of the united climate science.

Many of you appear concerned that we are wasting valuable lesson time, but I assure you we will go back to school the moment you start listening to science and give us a future. Is that really too much to ask?


Greta Thunberg condemns UK's climate stance in speech to MPs
Read more
In the year 2030 I will be 26 years old. My little sister Beata will be 23. Just like many of your own children or grandchildren. That is a great age, we have been told. When you have all of your life ahead of you. But I am not so sure it will be that great for us.

I was fortunate to be born in a time and place where everyone told us to dream big; I could become whatever I wanted to. I could live wherever I wanted to. People like me had everything we needed and more. Things our grandparents could not even dream of. We had everything we could ever wish for and yet now we may have nothing.

Now we probably don’t even have a future any more.

Because that future was sold so that a small number of people could make unimaginable amounts of money. It was stolen from us every time you said that the sky was the limit, and that you only live once.

You lied to us. You gave us false hope. You told us that the future was something to look forward to. And the saddest thing is that most children are not even aware of the fate that awaits us. We will not understand it until it’s too late. And yet we are the lucky ones. Those who will be affected the hardest are already suffering the consequences. But their voices are not heard.

Is my microphone on? Can you hear me?

Around the year 2030, 10 years 252 days and 10 hours away from now, we will be in a position where we set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control, that will most likely lead to the end of our civilisation as we know it. That is unless in that time, permanent and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society have taken place, including a reduction of CO2 emissions by at least 50%.

And please note that these calculations are depending on inventions that have not yet been invented at scale, inventions that are supposed to clear the atmosphere of astronomical amounts of carbon dioxide.


Sign up to the Green Light email to get the planet's most important stories
Read more
Furthermore, these calculations do not include unforeseen tipping points and feedback loops like the extremely powerful methane gas escaping from rapidly thawing arctic permafrost.

Nor do these scientific calculations include already locked-in warming hidden by toxic air pollution. Nor the aspect of equity – or climate justice – clearly stated throughout the Paris agreement, which is absolutely necessary to make it work on a global scale.

We must also bear in mind that these are just calculations. Estimations. That means that these “points of no return” may occur a bit sooner or later than 2030. No one can know for sure. We can, however, be certain that they will occur approximately in these timeframes, because these calculations are not opinions or wild guesses.

These projections are backed up by scientific facts, concluded by all nations through the IPCC. Nearly every single major national scientific body around the world unreservedly supports the work and findings of the IPCC.

Did you hear what I just said? Is my English OK? Is the microphone on? Because I’m beginning to wonder.

During the last six months I have travelled around Europe for hundreds of hours in trains, electric cars and buses, repeating these life-changing words over and over again. But no one seems to be talking about it, and nothing has changed. In fact, the emissions are still rising.

When I have been travelling around to speak in different countries, I am always offered help to write about the specific climate policies in specific countries. But that is not really necessary. Because the basic problem is the same everywhere. And the basic problem is that basically nothing is being done to halt – or even slow – climate and ecological breakdown, despite all the beautiful words and promises.

The UK is, however, very special. Not only for its mind-blowing historical carbon debt, but also for its current, very creative, carbon accounting.

Since 1990 the UK has achieved a 37% reduction of its territorial CO2 emissions, according to the Global Carbon Project. And that does sound very impressive. But these numbers do not include emissions from aviation, shipping and those associated with imports and exports. If these numbers are included the reduction is around 10% since 1990 – or an an average of 0.4% a year, according to Tyndall Manchester.

And the main reason for this reduction is not a consequence of climate policies, but rather a 2001 EU directive on air quality that essentially forced the UK to close down its very old and extremely dirty coal power plants and replace them with less dirty gas power stations. And switching from one disastrous energy source to a slightly less disastrous one will of course result in a lowering of emissions.

But perhaps the most dangerous misconception about the climate crisis is that we have to “lower” our emissions. Because that is far from enough. Our emissions have to stop if we are to stay below 1.5-2C of warming. The “lowering of emissions” is of course necessary but it is only the beginning of a fast process that must lead to a stop within a couple of decades, or less. And by “stop” I mean net zero – and then quickly on to negative figures. That rules out most of today’s politics.

The fact that we are speaking of “lowering” instead of “stopping” emissions is perhaps the greatest force behind the continuing business as usual. The UK’s active current support of new exploitation of fossil fuels – for example, the UK shale gas fracking industry, the expansion of its North Sea oil and gas fields, the expansion of airports as well as the planning permission for a brand new coal mine – is beyond absurd.

This ongoing irresponsible behaviour will no doubt be remembered in history as one of the greatest failures of humankind.

People always tell me and the other millions of school strikers that we should be proud of ourselves for what we have accomplished. But the only thing that we need to look at is the emission curve. And I’m sorry, but it’s still rising. That curve is the only thing we should look at.

Every time we make a decision we should ask ourselves; how will this decision affect that curve? We should no longer measure our wealth and success in the graph that shows economic growth, but in the curve that shows the emissions of greenhouse gases. We should no longer only ask: “Have we got enough money to go through with this?” but also: “Have we got enough of the carbon budget to spare to go through with this?” That should and must become the centre of our new currency.

Many people say that we don’t have any solutions to the climate crisis. And they are right. Because how could we? How do you “solve” the greatest crisis that humanity has ever faced? How do you “solve” a war? How do you “solve” going to the moon for the first time? How do you “solve” inventing new inventions?

The climate crisis is both the easiest and the hardest issue we have ever faced. The easiest because we know what we must do. We must stop the emissions of greenhouse gases. The hardest because our current economics are still totally dependent on burning fossil fuels, and thereby destroying ecosystems in order to create everlasting economic growth.

“So, exactly how do we solve that?” you ask us – the schoolchildren striking for the climate.

And we say: “No one knows for sure. But we have to stop burning fossil fuels and restore nature and many other things that we may not have quite figured out yet.”

Then you say: “That’s not an answer!”

So we say: “We have to start treating the crisis like a crisis – and act even if we don’t have all the solutions.”

“That’s still not an answer,” you say.

Then we start talking about circular economy and rewilding nature and the need for a just transition. Then you don’t understand what we are talking about.

We say that all those solutions needed are not known to anyone and therefore we must unite behind the science and find them together along the way. But you do not listen to that. Because those answers are for solving a crisis that most of you don’t even fully understand. Or don’t want to understand.

You don’t listen to the science because you are only interested in solutions that will enable you to carry on like before. Like now. And those answers don’t exist any more. Because you did not act in time.

Avoiding climate breakdown will require cathedral thinking. We must lay the foundation while we may not know exactly how to build the ceiling.

Sometimes we just simply have to find a way. The moment we decide to fulfil something, we can do anything. And I’m sure that the moment we start behaving as if we were in an emergency, we can avoid climate and ecological catastrophe. Humans are very adaptable: we can still fix this. But the opportunity to do so will not last for long. We must start today. We have no more excuses.

We children are not sacrificing our education and our childhood for you to tell us what you consider is politically possible in the society that you have created. We have not taken to the streets for you to take selfies with us, and tell us that you really admire what we do.

We children are doing this to wake the adults up. We children are doing this for you to put your differences aside and start acting as you would in a crisis. We children are doing this because we want our hopes and dreams back.

I hope my microphone was on. I hope you could all hear me.
 

Calvin27

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Applaud her for the cause, but kind of getting tired of seeing Greta everywhere. I'd rather hear about stuff actually changing. Right now climate is not even close to the top agenda for UK, Brexit is haha. Orrrddaaaaaaa!
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Nothing is changing. That's why you are not hearing anything.

Greta is the only prominent person on this planet trying to draw light onto CC.
 

Dales Cannon

Adminerotic
Staff member
Why cant we ban the sale of new two stroke motors? Say 2020 and stop the sale of spare parts and service for them by 2025? Filthy fucking things and the worst of them are spewing oil into the waterways.
 

Haakon

Not happy, Jan.
Why cant we ban the sale of new two stroke motors? Say 2020 and stop the sale of spare parts and service for them by 2025? Filthy fucking things and the worst of them are spewing oil into the waterways.
Emissions standards for small engines and outboards were introduced. It’s a tech neutral standard, but the upshot is that two strokes will not meet them. Expect to see two stroke mowers and grass trimmers etc to vanish soon.

 
Top