Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

[fatboyonabike]

and right next to that article we get https://www.theguardian.com/austral...tment-to-block-lord-howe-island-wind-turbines

LHI would be a stellar location for wind/solar farm, it gets not windy on LHI about 3 days a year, the rest of the time it blows all day and night long
there is at least 5 non sensitive spots that I can think of that this could be set up there, this should be considered a 'no-brainer' , which is probably why another bungling bureaucrat had decided that it is not a good idea..god bless them.. Haarkon's mates!

 

[Haakon]

LHI would be a stellar location for wind/solar farm, it gets not windy on LHI about 3 days a year, the rest of the time it blows all day and night long
there is at least 5 non sensitive spots that I can think of that this could be set up there, this should be considered a 'no-brainer' , which is probably why another bungling bureaucrat had decided that it is not a good idea..god bless them.. Haarkon's mates!

Read the title on the article again...

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...tment-to-block-lord-howe-island-wind-turbines

 

[climberman]

LHI would be a stellar location for wind/solar farm, it gets not windy on LHI about 3 days a year, the rest of the time it blows all day and night long
there is at least 5 non sensitive spots that I can think of that this could be set up there, this should be considered a 'no-brainer' , which is probably why another bungling bureaucrat had decided that it is not a good idea..god bless them.. Haarkon's mates!

The beaurocrats said it was a good idea - Frydenburg ignored their advice.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Anyone read this yet?

https://exponentialroadmap.org/

Better to discuss than Josh Frydenberg.

 

[fatboyonabike]

there is a few good points there HiFi
But I still think we are ignoring the elephant in the room, Big Data!
everybody is using less, driving electric cars and catching public transport, choosing sustainable options etc, but the real issue is the relentless and ever expanding use digital technologies.
do office workers really need to spend 8 hours a day in front of their 3 computer monitors, fed by some poorly designed server room that consumes 80% of the building's energy just to get rid of the rejected heat, whilst the air conditioning runs 24/7 to warm up the office space?
and this is happening on a global scale like never before, countries that never really had digital industries before are joining the ride, corporations in search of cheap real estate and labour..where they can build massive infrastructure without regulations and modern building standards.

 

[Haakon]

Electricity isn’t the problem, it’s what produces it.

 

[hifiandmtb]

@fatboyonabike It's actually discussed in the Digital Industry section, page 68. In quite some depth too.

Summary below:

CURRENT SITUATION In the last version of this report, the life cycle carbon footprint of the information and communications technology (ICT) sector was estimated to be 730 Mt of CO2e (1.4% of the global total while using 3.6% of global electricity for its operations), based on 2015 data. The entertainment and media (E&M) sector’s electronic footprint was estimated at 420 Mt (0.8%) and the footprint of traditional paper media 220 Mt (0.4%) . 1 In this report, the ICT and E&M sectors will collectively be referred to as the “digital industry” – which is a subsection of the “industry” sector previously described. Between 2010 and 2015, data traffic quadrupled and the number of mobile subscribers increased by 30%. However, at the same time, their combined emissions and the electricity used for operation both declined about 15%, while ICT emissions remained roughly constant.2

The main reason for this development has been massive gains in energy efficiency and a shift in computing from desktop and laptop to handheld devices. Similarly, the steady shift of entertainment experiences online means that the entertainment and media industry’s ongoing emissions are also in decline. Ongoing research based on more recent market statistics from industry analysts and ICT companies suggests that these trends will continue. Carbon emissions in the digital industry are expected to continue to drop up to 2020, while total data traffic is forecast to increase.

Beyond 2020, discussions are ongoing between the International Telecommunication Union, GSM Association, Global e-Sustainability Initiative and the Science-Based Targets Initiative to establish a decarbonisation pathway that supports a 1.5°C trajectory for the ICT sector.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Electricity Energy isn’t the problem, it’s how much we use & what produces it.

Fixed.

 

[fatboyonabike]

you are missing the point
with the heavy demand for energy hungry digital technologies, there is no way that renewables alone can sustain this

 

[Haakon]

you are missing the point
with the heavy demand for energy hungry digital technologies, there is no way that renewables alone can sustain this

Really? Why’s that?

 

[hifiandmtb]

Please, I encourage everyone to read the report end-to-end and comment after they've read it.

 

[Freediver]

Really? Why’s that?

Because that's what good old Al Jones said.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Renewables in this country has and is a big fail, it's just too expensive for reliable systems. I keep hearing how people take up the roof top solar rebates and end with systems that can potentially burn their house down and or need total replacing after failing at full cost , while the installer files for liquidation or closes its doors to avoid warranty. It's another Peter Garret roof top insulation story. Australia is fucked all round, price of living has skyrocketed with hidden taxes and the labour rates have followed which makes a transition into renewables harder than what it already is.

Solar companies that have gone into liquidation

 

[SummitFever]

Agree with most of what you say but the insulation scheme was on every indicator a success torpedoed by political bs. The deathrate amongst installers was less than that of the building industry in general. Eg. Was safer to be an installer than working on a building site (even with the dodgy practices of some installers). We don't ban driving because some people drive like shit.

 

[Calvin27]

Agree with most of what you say but the insulation scheme was on every indicator a success torpedoed by political bs. The deathrate amongst installers was less than that of the building industry in general. Eg. Was safer to be an installer than working on a building site (even with the dodgy practices of some installers). We don't ban driving because some people drive like shit.

+1. If anything the insulation scheme problem was that it assumed we had a functioning building industry. Cladding fires would have you think otherwise.

 

[Haakon]

Renewables in this country has and is a big fail, it's just too expensive for reliable systems. I keep hearing how people take up the roof top solar rebates and end with systems that can potentially burn their house down and or need total replacing after failing at full cost , while the installer files for liquidation or closes its doors to avoid warranty. It's another Peter Garret roof top insulation story. Australia is fucked all round, price of living has skyrocketed with hidden taxes and the labour rates have followed which makes a transition into renewables harder than what it already is.

Solar companies that have gone into liquidation

Renewables are not expensive - fossils are. This is demonstrated simply by what the private sector is investing their money in.

Look at how many dollars is being spent on new renewable energy projects, and how much is being spent on fossils and then tell me what you think the market has determined is a winner

And I'm not just talking about a small rooftops and dodgy installers, look at the big projects with the real money sunk into them.

Not convinced this is the definition of "fucked" btw http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/australia/

 

[Flow-Rider]

Agree with most of what you say but the insulation scheme was on every indicator a success torpedoed by political bs. The deathrate amongst installers was less than that of the building industry in general. Eg. Was safer to be an installer than working on a building site (even with the dodgy practices of some installers). We don't ban driving because some people drive like shit.

Well, it actually made our house hotter because in summer it traps the heat in like an oven and you need to use the aircon, where before we hardly needed to turn it on.

If the government wanted people to have solar they would have made it more affordable for the average bear or more to the fact they would have installed solar farms themselves instead of trying to make the general public take up their expenses.

 

[Haakon]

If the government wanted people to have solar they would have made it more affordable for the average bear or more to the fact they would have installed solar farms themselves instead of trying to make the general public take up their expenses.

Huh? It did - feed in tarrifs and all sorts of other things to level the playing field against a heavily subsidised fossil industry.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Renewables are not expensive - fossils are. This is demonstrated simply by what the private sector is investing their money in.

Look at how many dollars is being spent on new renewable energy projects, and how much is being spent on fossils and then tell me what you think the market has determined is a winner

And I'm not just talking about a small rooftops and dodgy installers, look at the big projects with the real money sunk into them.

Not convinced this is the definition of "fucked" btw http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/australia/

One thing that I've learnt is that the corporate world does everything on monetary value, if someone can make electricity cheap enough and undercut another company so that they will go broke it would have happened before we speak.

Whats the point of having a selfish 'better life' if you create a country where it's better to be wasteful and not repair an item but rather throw them away because most people can buy them cheaper and manufactured from other countries which have poor living standards and working practises.

Huh? It did - feed in tarrifs and all sorts of other things to level the playing field against a heavily subsidised fossil industry.

For people that aren't high electricity uses it's barely worth fitting solar to the roof, it will take more than 10 years to get the money back and by then it will need replacing and who knows how much more you've needed to spend on repairs and maintenance.

 

[Tubbsy]

Not sure what you're basing all of these opinions on @Flow-Rider: anecdotally, my parents have something like the fourth residential solar installation in NSW going back at least 15 years. One inverter replaced under warranty at the 10 year mark with a more modern device, the original panels are still pumping out the watts. It has easily paid for itself, and it cost $18k at the time! The equivalent array now would be $5k or less.

You may not pay off the panels with bill savings in the short term, but the value of your house will go up commensurately. Just like any renovation or improvement..

As for the pink batts and exploding solar installations, calling out shoddy workmanship should be standard practice regardless of whether you support a particular industry. If people get hurt on the job, we shouldn't make more or less fuss if it's someone working in a mine or installing solar panels.

There is absolutely tonnes of information available proving that renewables are cheaper than fossil and getting cheaper still. Put aside your biases and do some research if you're really interested.

Renewable Energy Costs Take Another Tumble, Making Fossil Fuels Look More Expensive Than Ever

From solar to wind to geothermal to biomass, almost every source of renewable energy can now compete effectively on price with oil, coal and gas-fired power plants.

www.forbes.com