"Police shoot man atttempting self-harm"

Tomas

my mum says im cool
http://www.smh.com.au/national/police-shoot-man-atttempting-selfharm-20091118-il1v.html

For a second i thought i was reading the Onion. I know details are few, but really. The amount NSW and VIC police resort to lethal force on mentally ill people is just stupid. I do hope the irony of the headline doesnt escape them.

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Police today shot a man they say was trying to harm himself at a house in Sydney's south-west.

The officers responded to calls and found the 35-year-old man "attempting self harm" in Wangee Road, Lakemba, just before 9am, police said in a statement.

They tried to stop him but during a confrontation the officers shot him, the statement read.
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What a farce.
 

pin'd_it

Likes Dirt
The article didn't say wether the man died, so does anyone have any updates? However, it did refer to the homicide squad being notified, so I can only assume so.

Without disrespecting the police, as I believe they work in probably the toughest employment environment and often do an absolutely fantastic job given the circumstances, one can only question the necessity of this action. Sure, there may have been a "confrontation", but could the police have used less lethal force, or atleast procure a shot that inhibits but does not lethally wound? Im deffinetly in support of taser/stun guns, just to aviod unnecessary situations like this one.
 

CoUtTa

Likes Dirt
on", but could the police have used less lethal force, or atleast procure a shot that inhibits but does not lethally wound? Im deffinetly in support of taser/stun guns, just to aviod unnecessary situations like this one.

If I remember correctly, Aren't police trained to shoot to kill. As shooting to wound is not always effective as they can overcome pain in there "rampage".
Yet this guy was trying to cause harm to himself.


+1 taser/stun guns
 

tu plang

knob
Yeah... I mean it sounds ridiculous and painfully ironic but I don't think I'm going out on a limb here in saying that a mentally ill person trying to kill themselves has very little to lose in their own view at that stage and would present quite a danger to anyone standing in their way. As has been said without knowing details it's not fair to comment.

My understanding is that police are trained to shoot for the central body mass, rather than specifically to kill. Obviously the latter is frequently coincidental though. Reason being that shooting to disarm (ie at shoulders or limbs) increases the chances of missing significantly and shooting some other poor bastard.
 

Bretty.

Likes Bikes and Dirt
That's going by the assumption that by having nothing to lose he was by default going to kill/shank/knife down another bloke or two before taking his own life?

Need more details!
 

sockman

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The guy has been taken to hospital in a critical but stable condition, and an internal investigation will be undertaken.

Thanks channel ten news.
 

Ivan

Eats Squid
That's going by the assumption that by having nothing to lose he was by default going to kill/shank/knife down another bloke or two before taking his own life?
No thats not the assumption. Ever heard of police assisted suicide?

If you want to commit suicide, the easiest way to do it is by threatening someone with a gun on their hip.
 

Spanky_Ham

Porcinus Slappius
Perhaps the farce is the mental health system, and not the police.
+1 brazillion.....

and the next person who asks "Why didn't the police shoot to wound or disarm him".... your clearly identifying yourself as having NFI.. so STFU


s
 

5h1f7y

Likes Dirt
If you want to commit suicide, the easiest way to do it is by threatening someone with a gun on their hip.
agreed...

The real problem is our Health system, there are so many metally ill people living on the streets and in absolutely putrid conditions, so the government give the police more money to recruit more?

We can not have a utopian society but seriously why not give the health system more $ and hence give chaps like this a better chance of survival?
 

Tomas

my mum says im cool
SOURCE-- SMH: http://www.smh.com.au/national/man-...ed-gun-to-shoot-selfharmer-20091118-il1v.html

Man dead: officer with Taser used gun to shoot 'self-harmer'
GEORGINA ROBINSON AND JONATHAN DART
November 18, 2009 - 1:09PM

A female police officer of 21 years standing was armed with a Taser stun gun when she shot a man who had stabbed himself in the kitchen of a house in Sydney’s south-west, police say.

The 36-year-old man died in hospital after the sergeant shot him once in the kitchen of his father’s Lakemba home this morning.

Acting Commissioner Stuart Wilkins said the man was being treated by paramedics when he got up from the kitchen floor and confronted the four police officers who’d been sent to the house.

‘‘We believe he has grabbed the knife in the kitchen and confronted police,’’ Commissioner Wilkins said.

‘‘During that confrontation that male has been shot once by police from Campsie Local Area Command.

‘‘A further struggle has ensued and the male has committed self harm to himself again.

‘‘Police have wrestled the knife from that male person, he was given immediate attention from the ambulance personnel who were on scene.’’

Mr Wilkins would not say whether the officer used her stun gun or capsicum spray before firing her gun.

The sergeant was undergoing counselling before being formally interviewed about the shooting.

‘‘The officer, the sergeant, involved was armed with a Taser at the time and is Taser trained,’’ Mr Wilkins told reporters.

The father of the man said his son was trying to kill himself, said neighbour, Michael Pokorny, who had talked to the man's father, Adrian Salter, outside the house, after the shooting.

"He was very upset and he was all bloody on his hands," Mr Pokorny said.

Mr Pokorny said he was mowing the lawn and did not hear any gun shots.

His wife saw a lot of police cars outside Mr Salter’s house when she left to go grocery shopping.

"I ran out and then I talked to [Mr Salter]," Mr Pokorny said.

Mr Salter lived in the house alone but his son had been staying with him for a while, he said.

A police critical incident team and the homicide squad are investigating the shooting.

No police officers or paramedics were hurt, police said.

Last year, Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said the use of stun guns could have prevented the shooting death of Roni Levi on Bondi Beach in 1997.

The 33-year-old French photographer was shot four times in the chest by two police officers after he allegedly lunged at them with a long kitchen knife.

Police were criticised in June this year following the shooting death of a 25-year-old man in Armidale.

The man had stolen a knife from a cafe and threatened a plain-clothes police officer before being chased by the officer and ending up in an alley, where the shooting occurred.

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"confronted" is one of thoes ambiguous words. Could mean anything from a stern word to lunging with a knife. Judging by the self-harm post incident, suicide by cop seems speculatively likely. Ah well, another mentally ill fatality on the NSW police forces chalkboard.
 

MTB11R

Likes Dirt
Unfortunately the roll out of Tasers to frontline Police came to late for this man. Currently only Supervisors are trained and allowed to carry them.
As of the 1st December 2009 the rollout to frontline/first responders will begin, although it will still take some time until all NSW Police are trained and supplied with the same.

The NSW government has stalled on this issue for far to long and another person who needed medical help for his mental condition and not a bullet has fallen through NSW Governments inaction. Remember it is over ten years on since Ron LEVI was shot dead on Bondi beach in similar circumstances.

EDIT: Interesting that whilst writing this reply the one above was posted with details I did not know. This definitely poses more questions as to why the Taser was not used as it is a better option to stop a threat then a pistol.
 
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toodles

Wheel size expert
EDIT: Interesting that whilst writing this reply the one above was posted with details I did not know. This definitely poses more questions as to why the Taser was not used as it is a better option to stop a threat then a pistol.
I wouldn't say Tasers are a better option to stop a threat. I know they're nicer and all, but I can guarantee I'd chose a pistol over a Taser anyday to stop someone trying to kill me. Tasers are mainly good for subduing people, not stopping them if they're already trying to hurt you. Plus if you miss - you're fucked.
 

scblack

Leucocholic
I wouldn't say Tasers are a better option to stop a threat. I know they're nicer and all, but I can guarantee I'd chose a pistol over a Taser anyday to stop someone trying to kill me. Tasers are mainly good for subduing people, not stopping them if they're already trying to hurt you. Plus if you miss - you're fucked.
Agreed, a taser is useful in some circumstances, but in a life and death situation, the gun would be out for me.
 

Tomas

my mum says im cool
Yep. From what I can make of that, it was indoors (so a hell of a lot more cramped than on a beach in the 90's), guns may have already been drawn. I cant see a split second decision to pull out a tazer in liu of a bullet to the chest occuring.
 

sxereturn

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The police are absolutely ill-equipped at dealing with even the most minor mentally-ill people. I have been involved in situations with a person suffering from a mental illness where the police have been involved. They try and apply logic and clear thought to a situation which is based on illogicality and confused thought. Usually their presence escalates a situation to such a level that incidents as extreme as this one occur.

Their is still an enormous amount of stigma surrounding mental illness in Australia, despite some forms such as Depression become more socially acceptable. The sooner that the general public become more understanding of mental illness, the sooner those who suffer may have a greater chance at living content lives.

Police barking demands at the mentally ill is like demanding a paraplegic walk down a flight of stairs - pointless. Imagine the outcry if a paraplegic was shot for not complying though.
 
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