Professionalism, or Cheating?

[GeurieMTB]

Hi all,

the following occurred at a recent major enduro event;

several riders in a distance category observed a sponsored rider in their category riding very slowly, "loitering' was one description. Reasonably slow riders passed this rider comfortably (and were surprised to do so to a sponsored team rider). They then observed this same rider race past them at a vastly increased pace with a team mate in tow behind him. They realised the rider getting the tow was in a different race category which had started earlier in the day. The "towed" rider was getting a good tow on a lengthy section of firetrail, and a decent old breather too.

Obviously this tactic wont work on singletrack or technical trails but many of our race courses have substantial sections of fire trail where this will work very nicely.

Are we getting into the territory of teams with the most/strongest domestiques dominating race podiums? Sacrificial riders?

In a similar vein shouldnt all racers in these events be obtaining all their sustenance from nominated "feed zones" rather than from supporters or other riders out on the trails?

Cheers

BTW I have contacted the team in question but have had no response to date. I wont name them until they do contact me so dont bother asking

 

[Dozer]

I reckon what he gained by drafting for a few seconds will in no way make up for what he lost riding slowly. I would've cracked up if I saw that, what a waste time and effort.

 

[driftking]

I reckon what he gained by drafting for a few seconds will in no way make up for what he lost riding slowly. I would've cracked up if I saw that, what a waste time and effort.

I believe the rider in question is the one being drafted, the rider slowing down is purely used as a slow tower. The one getting drafted was not slowing down at all.

I think its wrong yes if it is a different cat for sure.

If its same team same race then I say fair game it might be somewhat unfair to those who are riding alone so id call it a grey area but not illegal, different category though that's well in the red zone, or at least should be.

 

[GeurieMTB]

No you misunderstood, the guy who went slowly at the start then towed the other guy. Rider 2 went deliberately slow at first until his team mate (rider 1) caught up with him, then 2 rode much faster with 1 sitting in behind him getting the tow. And it was a LONG (multiple kms) section of open trail with a headwind

Hypothetically rider 2 was doing 50k, rider 1 doing 100k, so the fresh rider towed tiring team mate and gave him a solid breather the rest of the 100k race didnt get.

 

[Dozer]

Ahhm, my bad, I read it wrong.
Well, either way the guy who helped was in anopther race so I'd consider it pretty close to cheating seeing as they are on the same team. You could argue that it would be the same thing if some random jumped out of the crowd and drafted the guy.

 

[Sic]

So the guy getting the tow had been riding for longer and in a different category so the guy going slow sacrificed his race (presumably) to tow his team mate through a flat section into a head wind.

Its team strategy, so yeah cheating.

 

[scblack]

Is there an actual rule prohibiting drafting, such as in triathlons?

If not, he's not breaking a rule, just working along with a team-mate. Whats the problem with that?

 

[moorey]

Dozer, I believe he meant the slower rider was a patsy, and waiting for the faster rider to lap him and them trail him.
Meh. He probably copped dust, stones and arse wafts anyway. Sure it may have a place on road, but negligible on a Mtb on a fire road I imagine.
If it isnt expressly illegal, then it's probably fine, even if stupid and unsporting. There's no I in team, I guess that also means no I(dea), how to just enjoy the riding.

Edit. You edited while I was responding.

 

[geoff_tewierik]

Sounds like the pre Highland Fling articles that were published online, with comments in them about team tactics to ensure an overall win in the series.

 

[Rida]

Hi all,

the following occurred at a recent major enduro event;

several riders in a distance category observed a sponsored rider in their category riding very slowly, "loitering' was one description. Reasonably slow riders passed this rider comfortably (and were surprised to do so to a sponsored team rider). They then observed this same rider race past them at a vastly increased pace with a team mate in tow behind him. They realised the rider getting the tow was in a different race category which had started earlier in the day. The "towed" rider was getting a good tow on a lengthy section of firetrail, and a decent old breather too.

Obviously this tactic wont work on singletrack or technical trails but many of our race courses have substantial sections of fire trail where this will work very nicely.

Are we getting into the territory of teams with the most/strongest domestiques dominating race podiums? Sacrificial riders?

If the riders are in the same category then it's legitimate and common practice to draft or work together. Different story if the riders are in different categories. It's definitely cheating in MTB races if the rider being 'towed' or drafting is in a different category to the one providing the draft. Unfortunately it's pretty common to see women being towed and assisted by faster male riders. Some races have attempted to get rid of this practice by starting the elite women first but it still happens, esp in the women's age categories.

 

[steve24]

Notice Female riders in OO start 15 mins before men to stop this happening.

Re feed zones- taking on food outside feed zones is usually not permitted. Again at OO a few years ago the female leader was penalised for taking a camelbak at top of 1st big climb. It cost her the win....

While ethics of drafting is questionable in this case it is not uncommon. Also riders giving up wheels etc when needed for the main chance rider.
I do a few marathon races in Europe and drafting there is really important (amongst other racers, where everyone takes a turn at the front) and can save a load of time and energy on some of the longer unulating sections.

 

[johndh]

It is only illegal if the rules state so eg as oo does, for lap enduros eg 6 hrs it is hard to police! occasionally I will wait for the a faster rider to pass so I can sit on them, if it is a elite rider usually not for long, is that wrong or just tactics. Usually I just get blown to pieces and lose time recovering, from lactic overload.

 

[Clyde Dave]

In most races it is against the rules for a female to draft a male, but same sex drafting is fine.
And no, I have no idea how they police it!

 

[quiggs]

Its been happening for years I can recall numerous occasions where certain higher level girls have been looked after by male team riders or their local shop riders to get around races. I'm sure it happens all the time is it cheating? I don't think so. Is it outside of the spirit of lower level sport (which we are all apart of) probably YES. Do I care, not really. I personally race to challenge myself hopefully finish up in the top half and personally have fun on the bike. I don't care too much if two riders decide to work together to achieve a better result or one or both riders.

The same argument could be applied to those how choose to race outside of a perceived category, commonly referred to as sandbagging.

quiggs

 

[Nerf Herder]

*snip ... but same sex drafting is fine.

depends who's in government

 

[Knut]

There is a MASSIVE argument on a thread called drafting from a few years back. Your questions may be answered.

 

[moorey]

Sounds as dodgey as taking 2 different bikes to a multi stage race. I just don't understand some people's thinking.

 

[cleeshoy]

Can't remember when I saw it (Cycling Central?) but recently they spoke with Andy Blair about marathon races and he said one difference he noticed with marathon races in Australia verses marathon races in Europe is that over in Europe they have teams working for one guy with the starts being absolutely crazy fast to spread field allowing the main guy to "sit in" just like in road races. Will Australia follow suit? Hard to say - however at the Highland Fling I am guessing the Rockstar Race Team would have been doing something to help their man Shaun Lewis get over the line in first place for the XCM series win. Plus in the Cycling Central TV spot about the Highland Fling it was reported (no idea if this is true or not) that Andy Blair had formed an "alliance" with Trenton Day (I think it was?) - I took that as Trenton helping out Andy in some shape or form.

 

[Bushranger]

Can't remember when I saw it (Cycling Central?) but recently they spoke with Andy Blair about marathon races and he said one difference he noticed with marathon races in Australia verses marathon races in Europe is that over in Europe they have teams working for one guy with the starts being absolutely crazy fast to spread field allowing the main guy to "sit in" just like in road races.

That is all well and good.

Because in that situation everyone starts at the same time, and to it's overt and within rules.

But put it this way - are they allowed to have riders join their race mid way through to help them?

E.g. it's a 100km race, and you are permitted to have a rider commence riding after 60kms to help you through to the end of the race?

Of course not.

Well that is what has happened here effectivley, a rider who is not in the same race, has not done the same distance to that point at "race effort" has deliberately waited until the favoured rider has met them out on the trail and then helped them.

Of course, many will say to those who criticise such practice as taking it serious, lighten up, worry about your own square metre etc....

But really - who are the ones that need to lighten up - the people doing this sort of stuff. They are racing for a free pair of pedals and cost price energy gells.... who de doooo! Gee whiz, is winning a race is so important to them that they have to resort to this just let them have it and the rest of us will just go out and enjoy ourselves and ignore these so called "elites"! :

Same category, same race, start at same time - go your hardest and do whatever you like to help each other.

Different category, start at different times etc, quite clearly it's against the spirit of competition if not against the rules.

 

[quiggs]

E.g. it's a 100km race, and you are permitted to have a rider commence riding after 60kms to help you through to the end of the race?

Of course not.

Bushranger, you are on the money with the example here! It would be interesting to know furhter specifics to your example from the weekend. Was it elite male waiting for another elite male, male waiting for female, waitning for an age grouper etc? I couldn't see any advantage being dished out at the top end elite males as generally they are all pretty equal with only slight differences being on how they are feeling on the day, because the waiting rider would have to keep contact with his team rider and then be going fast enough to drop the rest of the conga line.

Interesting discussion, better than some of the rubbish of recent times

quiggs