Project Car / Motorbike thread. Let's see 'em.

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zac

Likes Dirt
So it's sounding more and more like something I don't want to try... I did our car (08 xtrail) and the SIL's (11 pulsar) but the H2 is the MIL's and if I fuck it up then the step FIL will kill me... if there was a straight plug and play option (ie not diy) then I'd be all for it but I know my limits with this shit.

@Dales Cannon I did pull the liner out to get this far but I'm not completely comfortable with attempting to go any further - I'm currently enjoying the use of my limbs and wish for that state of affairs to continue.

Thanks all for the advice - I really appreciate the effort you've all gone to. I'll have a chat with MIL and see what she wants to do but at this stage I'll probably leave it to someone with a bit more of an idea...
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Minlak said:
I wanted to put Spot / Driving lights on the KTM 1290 SAS - Started pricing it up and putting quality lights on - Seems you need to use the Canbus system of the bike or it gets weird about voltage going somewhere it doesn't understand - $900 for the light kit and $549 for the Canbus controller to plug in - for $1500 ill risk it in the dark :)
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The new Ford stuff is scary like this. Even taking another feed off the main battery can flag an issue. I got my canbus stuff for under $300 all up and others have proven it works. I will get into mine when the Prado is back on the road.
 
Cardy George

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
Haakon said:
Never use solder in an automotive application ;) It can lead to brittle joints that will fatigue and break.

Open brass crimps with heat shrink tube (the one with sealant if required) is the go.
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What Dale's said. And I recall somewhere you admitted to not being the best soldererer? Do it properly and it will last for decades. There's a bloke we use (only because we have no one else) that calls himself an auto electrician and his joins are shit. You have to get the wires properly hot and the liquid metal in between the strands.


I wrote this last night thinking we were in the EV thread, clearly the car world has followed suit.

Have any of these "new" EVs gone to a canbus system? John Deere, Kubota etc all have and it controls everything including lights. I can't do anything to the wiring that will change the resistance, the computer will throw a fault code and nothing will work.

CANBUS is fucked for any kind of after market gear.
 
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SummitFever

Eats Squid
For car automotive (and any other vibration prone environments) I would avoid solder joints. They make the multistrand wires stiff where they are soldered and provide a localised stress riser. A good crimp connection is best. Those wire tap things are the work of the devil.

Canbus is crap for aftermarket add ons unless there is an addon that supports what you're trying to do. It is great for trouble shooting but you need the right gear. I just fixed a Krone Combipack round baler that the Aus guys had pretty much given up on and the fact that all of the comms are via canbus made things quite a bit simpler than if it was a truckload of analogue wires.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
SummitFever said:
For car automotive (and any other vibration prone environments) I would avoid solder joints. They make the multistrand wires stiff where they are soldered and provide a localised stress riser. A good crimp connection is best. Those wire tap things are the work of the devil.

Canbus is crap for aftermarket add ons unless there is an addon that supports what you're trying to do. It is great for trouble shooting but you need the right gear. I just fixed a Krone Combipack round baler that the Aus guys had pretty much given up on and the fact that all of the comms are via canbus made things quite a bit simpler than if it was a truckload of analogue wires.
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^ wot he said.

There’s a reason why no factory loom will have solder connection anywhere and it’s not just ease of manufacturing.
Yes I am crap at it, but even a perfect solder joint is not as good as a proper crimp.
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Haakon said:
^ wot he said.

There’s a reason why no factory loom will have solder connection anywhere and it’s not just ease of manufacturing.
Yes I am crap at it, but even a perfect solder joint is not as good as a proper crimp.
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This is simply not true. Crimp can be as good as solder or not. Use soft solder and support the joint. I have had crimps fail on aftermarket stuff done by others. I have never had a crimp or solder joint I have done fail. The situation here was baring a section of wire, wrapping a tap onto it and soldering it. Not cutting wire and crimping in a tap or using one of those fucking heinous Scotch lock things. If you are shit at soldering or cannot adequately support the wire just crimp. And make sure you use the right crimping tool.
Both work fine but to say one should never be done is horseshit.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Solder can work is done well and failure is unlikely in most cases. It’s just not good practice.

And frankly a lot of faff, crimping with the proper tools and crimps is way easier.
 
cammas

cammas

Seamstress
As someone who worked as a solder/brazer for a couple different companies, soldering takes technique, patience and practice. Soldering wires has its place but I would not use it for say wires going to some spotlights that is hanging and has move to flex, it is not designed for that.

Soldering is used for fixed mounted connections like speakers and every dashboard used in vehicles, even down to your fuel senders (which is where I honed my skills).If not done regularly and/or properly you will end up with a shitty job that will fail and you will then complain that it’s shit.

Like anything, anyone can do it but there’s a difference in doing it and doing the job properly.
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
Dales Cannon said:
This is simply not true. Crimp can be as good as solder or not...
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Yeah, nah. A soldered joint onto a wire can be "good enough" and better than a bad crimp, but a good crimp will always be better than a good solder joint. There's a reason why soldering is for electrical connections between hard components (eg. pcb and a solid pin) and crimping is for flexible components (eg. multistrand wires).

Of course, some anecdotal evidence from a couple of shitty failed crimps is always better than industry practices across automotive and aerospace. ;)

Crimping is like posted on the internet. The key is to give a good pull. There are various standards but even the lowest have a shocking amount of weight that a crimp of even a thin wire needs to withstand (something like like 10kg on a 16g wire). That's like hanging a bucket of water off the wire.
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
SummitFever said:
Yeah, nah. A soldered joint onto a wire can be "good enough" and better than a bad crimp, but a good crimp will always be better than a good solder joint. There's a reason why soldering is for electrical connections between hard components (eg. pcb and a solid pin) and crimping is for flexible components (eg. multistrand wires).

Of course, some anecdotal evidence from a couple of shitty failed crimps is always better than industry practices across automotive and aerospace. ;)

Crimping is like posted on the internet. The key is to give a good pull. There are various standards but even the lowest have a shocking amount of weight that a crimp of even a thin wire needs to withstand (something like like 10kg on a 16g wire). That's like hanging a bucket of water off the wire.
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Meh. Whatever.

I was talking specifically about one particular application and the assertion that crimping is somehow better electrically is rubbish. All comes down to tooling and technique and application. I have proper crimping tools including an expensive hydraulic crimper and do mostly crimp joins with those. But to tap off a wire without cutting it...

Again. Meh. Whatever.
 
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Slow moe

Likes Dirt
cammas said:
As someone who worked as a solder/brazer for a couple different companies, soldering takes technique, patience and practice. Soldering wires has its place but I would not use it for say wires going to some spotlights that is hanging and has move to flex, it is not designed for that.

Soldering is used for fixed mounted connections like speakers and every dashboard used in vehicles, even down to your fuel senders (which is where I honed my skills).If not done regularly and/or properly you will end up with a shitty job that will fail and you will then complain that it’s shit.

Like anything, anyone can do it but there’s a difference in doing it and doing the job properly.
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Hard disagree. You are full of shit when you say "anyone can do it" .I can send some photos of attempts if needed, but needless to say (after many attempts over the years) I cannot solder to save my life.
As an aside, my crimping efforts have been fruitful
 
ozzybmx

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Dales Cannon said:
Meh. Whatever.

I was talking specifically about one particular application and the assertion that crimping is somehow better electrically is rubbish. All comes down to tooling and technique and application. I have proper crimping tools including an expensive hydraulic crimper and do mostly crimp joins with those. But to tap off a wire without cutting it...

Again. Meh. Whatever.
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100%, if I'm taking a feed off the genuine car wiring loom high beam to send it to a relay, to activate a light bar. I am stripping back and soldering the take off. Then tape/heatshrink, split tube and tie back against the loom.

Best practice is take off somewhere out of the weather/wet and stationary anyway, then cable tie to support.

Proper gear and proper skills, with time to do the job right on your vehicle is the key.
 
oldcorollas

oldcorollas

Levin the moment
Slow moe said:
Hard disagree. You are full of shit when you say "anyone can do it" .I can send some photos of attempts if needed, but needless to say (after many attempts over the years) I cannot solder to save my life.
As an aside, my crimping efforts have been fruitful
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with a couple of years theory training and an apprenticeship, you too can learn to solder well :)

wire condition, solder/flux type, and temp make all the difference, even with good technique.
soldering shitty wires = shitty soldering of wires :)

for an emergency repair on side of the road, hard to beat a jet lighter + solder :p (i don't take a crimper on road trips...)
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
ozzybmx said:
100%, if I'm taking a feed off the genuine car wiring loom high beam to send it to a relay, to activate a light bar. I am stripping back and soldering the take off. Then tape/heatshrink, split tube and tie back against the loom.
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I cut the wire, strip both new ends and crimp back together with the take off wire. Usually remembering to slide on the heat shrink tube before I rejoin them...
 
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