Proposed XC Wheel build?

[Geoff Gump]

Hey all,
I have been debating for a while about whether to buy pre-made wheels or build my own for a XC/Trail build. I have decided to 'lace up' my own and just wanted to run it by you guys to make sure I am not doing anything TOO silly.

Being 56KG, how would a 32H Front and 36H Rear HOPE PRO 2 wheelset with 2-1.8-2 DT SWISS spokes hold up for XC/Trail riding?

Cheers

 

[Josh Seksy]

Hey Mate,

Couple of things...

What rim do you intend on running?

By 'lace up' do you mean build yourself? Wheelbuilding can be quiet difficult to get the pattern right, I suggest the LBS doing it.

-Josh

 

[Geoff Gump]

I was intending to build them up myself (although I have never built a wheel up before, I am reasonably mechanically minded and I suppose you have to start somewhere?) with a lightish XC/Trail rim such as a Spank Oozy or DT Swiss XR400 (still deciding - any reccomendations?).

Cheers

 

[bipyjamas]

I would probably suggest not getting a 36H rear only because 32H is more popular/convenient and you won't need the extra 4 spokes for XC.

Building wheels is fun, do it!

 

[Josh Seksy]

I would go for the DT rim personally, every DT product I've used has been fantastic.

As for the Hubs,
stick to 32H F&R, Its plenty strong for XC, hell, I even know DH riders that run 32H, its so much more practical.

If your intending to build them up yourself...
BUY A DECENT TRUE STAND & DISH STICK!
I cannot stress enough how important good quality of the above tools is,
Think $400 upwards on a true stand, and up from $150 on a dish stick, you don't want to get crap, because then you'll end up with crap wheels!
Think Park Tools or Pedros for your tools.

I'd also recomend a DT spoke key, much less likely to round nipples, especially if you intend to build with alloy nipples.

Its much easier and you'll build a much stronger set of wheels if you have a spoke tension meter too, saves you from frequent re-trues on an unbalanced wheel.

Definately get a how-to guide too, you don't want to bugger it up or you could be looking at expensive dental bills!

If you considered going a complete set, I'd recomend the JetBlack Rocket wheelset if you're on a budget, very light, very strong and come in pimping colours!!
sub $700 for a pair!

Hope it helps,
Josh

 

[T-Rex]

To the above posts I'll add:

At 56kg you are a pretty light rider, so assuming you are not an abusive rider you could go pretty light in your wheel build. The 2.0/1.8 double butted spokes you refer to are what we use for downhill wheel builds ie they are pretty heavy duty. My light XC wheels are DT Swiss 430s built with 2.0/1.5 DB spokes and I'm 83kg, so you could get away with the same.

I agree with getting 32s front and rear, don't bother with the 36s.

I've used Hope Pro 2 DH hubs they are pretty good value for money and light, all the Pro 2s seem to have a pretty good reputation.

I disagree with the comment about spending mega bucks on wheel building gear. Yes Park gear is nice, but I have built heaps of wheels using my $50 ebay stand, and I've even done an emergency build at a race with the bike flipped upside down, using a couple of cable ties. And you don't need a dishing tool, you can use two small glasses and a stack of coins on a flat surface. The one tool worth spending money on is a spoke tension meter, and the Park unit is good, and no where as expensive as the DT Swiss.

Here's one guide to wheel building, it's not the lacing method I use, but as he says in the opening line, there are various methods. Your lacing method should be 3 x for a "normal" wheel, which is what is being discussed in this thread.

http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=70066

 

[Geoff Gump]

Thanks for all the input so far, is it just me or does a couple of hundred bucks sound crazy for what is mostly just a 'true' stand? Would it be worth spending over $200 more for the Park Tool 'Professional' vs the 'Home Mechanic' trueing stand? Would I even notice the difference between them and a $50 ebay one?

(Here and Here)

Cheers

 

[T-Rex]

Thanks for all the input so far, is it just me or does a couple of hundred bucks sound crazy for what is mostly just a 'true' stand? Would it be worth spending over $200 more for the Park Tool 'Professional' vs the 'Home Mechanic' trueing stand? Would I even notice the difference between them and a $50 ebay one?

(Here and Here)

Cheers

Yeah, you would notice the difference. Nice tools are nicer to use, and the TS2 is professional grade. I'd love to have one. The $50 ebay one is cheap, not as nice to use, slower to adjust, tacky plastic fittings, etc etc. Pretty much you get what you pay for. However, in terms of the end result of the quality of wheel build, I've never been able to justify in my mind the cost of a TS2. I can get a wheel to within a mm of runout with my cheapie, and after that it's all about correctness and uniformity of spoke tension.

 

[redbruce]

An excellent cost effective resource for both new and old wheelbuilders alike is Roger Musson's book "The professional guide to wheelbuilding". An e book, its around $16 and you get free upgrades and access to online help and other support material. His book also gives a plan to make both a wheel stand and dishing tools quite cheaply.

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

 

[McBain]

The Park stuff is nice, but unless you plan to build lots of wheels, you don't need to spend that much. I've had a Minoura stand like these for years, and have used it to build about a dozen wheels and fixed up a few more. Mine came with the dishing stick, which is a must.

Instead use the money you save on a good spoke tool (that is the right one for your chosen nipples), and maybe a spoke tension meter. I've got the simple Park one, and it works fine.

That said, I do keep lusting after a nicer workstand, but the Minoura is easy to set up on a chair in front of the TV.

Building a lightweight wheel for your first one can get tedious - lighter rims are much more sensitive to uneven spoke tension, so getting the initial lacing right is extra important. But 32h with 2.0/1.8 DT Comps is what I run on the mtb, and I'm twice your weight.

And as always, Sheldon's wheelbuilding info is a great resource.

 

[BenMoore]

I've built plenty of great wheels using nothing but the bike frame itself with sticky tape and a pair of V-brakes to get them beautifully true.

Correct tension however, requires some sort of measurement. The pitch of the sound after plucking a spoke can be used to determine its tension. The simplest way is to compare your wheel's spoke pitch with a well built wheel of the same spoke length if you can get one. An electronic guitar tuner or any computer with an attached microphone can also be used to find the pitch of the sound (if you don't have a piano handy!).

Some details on correct pitches Vs spoke length here:
http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm

 

[outtacontrol]

If you have your heart set on building your wheels, good luck.

But I am close to your weight and bought some Hope Hoops (Stans ZTR355 rims, DT Swiss spokes, and Hope proII hubs) from CRC for about $380. They weigh about 1600grams and have stood up to my rocky XC/AM trails really well.
Also the easiest tubeless setup I've ever used, and I run non UST tyres.

 

[BenMoore]

Regarding spoke choice, I'd second the motion for 2.0/1.5 mm DB spokes. The thinner the spoke the tougher the wheel. Metal fatigue - the process that usually usually causes spoke failure - only really occurs at the bend, or less commonly, near the nipple. So, as long as you have 2.0 mm in those areas there is no compromise. In fact, a thinner middle section actually increases the fatigue life because the spoke is more elastic.

I've used DT Revolution which are really nice but there is now also the Sapim Laser which can be got from the US here among other places:
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/accessories/product10.htm

 

[McBain]

Regarding spoke choice, I'd second the motion for 2.0/1.5 mm DB spokes.

I don't know if I'd recommend them for a first wheelbuild - the relatively thin middle section means that they'll twist more as you are bringing the tension up. That can make it a real pain to get the final tension even. My first wheels were straight gauge which meant I had less things to worry about (then again I was confused enough, as my LBS at the time sold me the wrong length spokes for one side of the rear wheel ).

And "thinner spokes = stronger wheel" only goes so far. At 50ish kg you can get away with a lot though. 1.8/1.6 would be almost as light as 2.0/1.5, and easier to build up.

 

[Geoff Gump]

Cheers for all the replies, just one question:
I know that trailing spokes are the ones that are on the inner side of the flange (flat circle faces outwards from the hub), and leading spokes are the opposite, but is that the only difference? And is the key spoke (trailing spoke) directly to the right of the valve hole when looking from the freewheel side?

 

[akashra]

At 56kg you could likely have the worst wheelbuilder in the world do the job and them come out fine from decent hits*.
In 3.5 years as a ~64-68kg rider I've taco'd one rim and put another one out needing truing, with about 7 sets in the collection kicking around. I pretty much get everything laced to Mavic XC717 rims with either DT Comp or SuperComp spokes, never had any major issues.
The single PT/XM819/SuperComp rear wheel I have feels like a granite disc, so stiff it is - though you tend to notice flex in the front rather than rear.

* = I'm totally kidding, but 56kg is doesn't need heavy duty components is my point

 

[T-Rex]

^^^ Depends on how you ride. This MTX lasted 3 months under a 56kg rider, admitedly not XC riding, but a light rider can still be hard on gear, regardless of the discipline.