Rear Wheel. Spokes Detensioning. Creaking noise under braking or climbing.

EsPeGe

Likes Dirt
Another thing I've heard about but not seen is when you tension the spokes you should actually go slightly past the tension point then back it off very slightly. This is to "untwist" the spoke. I've heard if it's not done when ridden the spoke can unwind and then be loose. If your builder didn't do this maybe that's whats happening. That said I haven't done it on my builds as I find a good de-tension does the same thing but everyone builds differently so who knows?
 

T-Rex

Template denier
Hi All, have this ongoing problem with my rear wheel. It's fine for the first two rides after being trued. It then starts to creak under breaking or climbing. The wheel is a 2019 Mavic Crossmax Elite 29er. I replaced the spokes and nipples with Sapim xray and brass nipples. No joy! According to the Mavic tech doc. The drive side should be 120kgf and the non drive side 100kgf. Should the wheel have more tension than what's recommended?

Cheers!
Are you sure it's the wheel that's creaking?
 

The Duckmeister

Eats Squid
Could the problem be not enough tension?
As noted up the page, could be that or uneven spoke tension, or both.
If I add more tension what's the worst that could happen? A broken spoke?
Depends how much you increase the tension..... At high tensions aluminium rims become unstable and can collapse into a useless taco shape at a very minor impact. And the rim is more likely to crack from stress around the spoke holes. You'll get that rather than broken spokes; that's also a symptom of uneven and/or inadequate tension rather than over-tension.
 

The Duckmeister

Eats Squid
Another thing I've heard about but not seen is when you tension the spokes you should actually go slightly past the tension point then back it off very slightly. This is to "untwist" the spoke. I've heard if it's not done when ridden the spoke can unwind and then be loose. If your builder didn't do this maybe that's whats happening. That said I haven't done it on my builds as I find a good de-tension does the same thing but everyone builds differently so who knows?
It's basically another method of destressing the spokes, but it's not a bad approach with finer gauge spokes which are more prone to twisting than heavier ones. With a bit of experience you can feel how much each turn of the spoke key is adjusting the nipple, and how much is just twisting the spoke, so you learn to compensate by overadjusting then backing off, sometimes by as much as half, e.g you want a 1/4 turn adjustment on the spoke, but to allow for twist you go half a turn on the spoke key, wait for the ping then back off a 1/4 turn.
 

Oddjob

Wheel size expert
It's basically another method of destressing the spokes, but it's not a bad approach with finer gauge spokes which are more prone to twisting than heavier ones. With a bit of experience you can feel how much each turn of the spoke key is adjusting the nipple, and how much is just twisting the spoke, so you learn to compensate by overadjusting then backing off, sometimes by as much as half, e.g you want a 1/4 turn adjustment on the spoke, but to allow for twist you go half a turn on the spoke key, wait for the ping then back off a 1/4 turn.
+1 after a while you can actually feel this through the spoke key. There's a distinct drop in resistance as you back the nipple off that then feels neutral once the spoke has unwound.

I still think 24 spokes is too few spokes unless you're less then 70kgs. My wife is 65kgs and we have a set of carbon wheels with 24 spokes that only come out for group rides with lots of vert. They are just too unstable for everyday use.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

Damaz

Squid
As noted up the page, could be that or uneven spoke tension, or both.

Depends how much you increase the tension..... At high tensions aluminium rims become unstable and can collapse into a useless taco shape at a very minor impact. And the rim is more likely to crack from stress around the spoke holes. You'll get that rather than broken spokes; that's also a symptom of uneven and/or inadequate tension rather than over-tension.
Possibly a suspect build then. Like I say I had the SLR wheels (two sets actually) and both were fine for wheel strength.

Any chance you can get them checked over by a friendly LBS?
There's few capable bike shops in my area unfortunately That's the reason I bought a TM-1. I need to learn myself.
 

Damaz

Squid
I'm a bit confused - you said you replaced the spokes and nipples in your original post - or did someone do that for you?

Increasing tension beyond the maximum recommended limit would be ill advised. It could result in damage to the rim - cracking or deformation around the spoke holes. Unfortunately @Oddjob is probably right - a narrow rim with a low spoke count is going to struggle with a heavier rider.
Sorry my local LBS did the rebuild. Was thinking of increasing the tension by 1. Using the Park Tools tension meter conversion table. From 100kgf to 111kgf on the non drive side and 123kgf to 137kgf on the driveside. It's worth a shot and since I might need another rear wheel anyway. Might as well stuff this one in the name of science!
 

Damaz

Squid
It's basically another method of destressing the spokes, but it's not a bad approach with finer gauge spokes which are more prone to twisting than heavier ones. With a bit of experience you can feel how much each turn of the spoke key is adjusting the nipple, and how much is just twisting the spoke, so you learn to compensate by overadjusting then backing off, sometimes by as much as half, e.g you want a 1/4 turn adjustment on the spoke, but to allow for twist you go half a turn on the spoke key, wait for the ping then back off a 1/4 turn.
Worth a shot mate. I do use a spoke holder. You're suggesting this happens inside the nipple?
 

Damaz

Squid
I went for a ride this morning in the pouring rain, was thinking while I was being drenched and listening to that creaking noise.....!! The seat tube on my Scott FS is offset by 25mm. Could this be creating problems with my wheel?
 
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T-Rex

Template denier
Sorry my local LBS did the rebuild. Was thinking of increasing the tension by 1. Using the Park Tools tension meter conversion table. From 100kgf to 111kgf on the non drive side and 123kgf to 137kgf on the driveside. It's worth a shot and since I might need another rear wheel anyway. Might as well stuff this one in the name of science!
That small increase in tension won't matter.

How much tension are the spokes losing after a couple of rides? Or are they just getting creaky? If the latter, you could try assembling with linseed oil, it acts as lube when you are assembling, then sets after a week or so and acts as thread lock.
 

The Duckmeister

Eats Squid
Sorry my local LBS did the rebuild. Was thinking of increasing the tension by 1. Using the Park Tools tension meter conversion table. From 100kgf to 111kgf on the non drive side and 123kgf to 137kgf on the driveside. It's worth a shot and since I might need another rear wheel anyway. Might as well stuff this one in the name of science!
That's bloody high tension for an aluminium rim! Unless it's an absolute brute of a rim I wouldn't go above 120kgf, for the reasons I listed above.

It's basically another method of destressing the spokes, but it's not a bad approach with finer gauge spokes which are more prone to twisting than heavier ones. With a bit of experience you can feel how much each turn of the spoke key is adjusting the nipple, and how much is just twisting the spoke, so you learn to compensate by overadjusting then backing off, sometimes by as much as half, e.g you want a 1/4 turn adjustment on the spoke, but to allow for twist you go half a turn on the spoke key, wait for the ping then back off a 1/4 turn.
Worth a shot mate. I do use a spoke holder. You're suggesting this happens inside the nipple?
Yes, it's friction between the spoke and the nipple as the tension increases. Less of a problem with bladed spokes where using a holder will minimise twist, but you'll still get a bit.
 
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