Reccomend me some road bikes ($1000-$2000)

[Adi]

Hi everyone

I would like to start riding a bike to work every day. However, it is much too difficult on my Norco A-Line

I am about 170cm and 80kg. The daily ride to work is roughly 20km each way. So 40km per day.
I can do the trip on my father's crappy Kmart 'mountainbike' bike in 1 hour each way.

My budget is on the order of 1,000-2,000 AU dollars.

Could anyone suggest some new complete bikes within this price range?
What could I buy second hand for this money?
Also if you know any good bicycle shops in Perth which have a good range of road bikes that would be helpful.


Thanks in advance.

 

[chrisp2087]

G'day Adi,

$1,000 - $2,000 should be enough to buy you a decent commuter. I can't tell you much about Perth but some of the bikes I'd be looking at are the flat bar range from Giant that's the CRX range
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-AU/bikes/road/2173/31844/
Got internal gears and disc brakes.

I also ride a Cell bike, there's another thread about them in the roadie section, pretty much the summary I get is that they're not elegant but they'll do for commuting duties. Can order them online, but you'd probably be better off with a LBS.

 

[Louman]

Hi Adi,

For bang for you buck, you can't really go wrong with an Avanti Giro.

Go to the avantibikes website look for road bikes and then endurance/giro

Not from Perth but I'm sure these can be ordered from any stores who has Avanti has their stockist.

Happy riding.

 

[rayza]

interested in a mint condition Giant defy 1? its done less than 200kms, comes with a Cateye micro wireless computer. bottlecage and taillight? i do love the bike but i just havnt had the time to get out on it, and i really want a fixie. looking for $1300 (rrp $1799)

 

[Buriedpast]

.

Being totally blunt
Theres only so bad you can make an alloy frame bike in 2008/9.

So any brand entry level will always be the same give or take very small changes. As a commuter, you will never notice the difference.

So weigh your options up on the following:
Groupset
Wheels
Extras

My diamondback shitter entry level 2200/sora equipped thingo rides just as fast as a $5k carbon orbea for the 100-150km rides I do with people. It commutes no slower than any other bike commute over the 20-55km ride into work. Its only when putting in lots of climbing effort and long distance stuff that I really feel the hurt and wish it was lighter and stiffer.

If I had the option knowing what I do now, to buy another bike at entry level my decision would be based purely on groupset. 105 level hoods and rear dr with 10spd casette minimum.

All entry level frames will flex like buggery when you put the power down heavy, between some of my friends low end bikes/commuters like entry level giants, treks, masi's, etc I can easily flex the bb for mass chain rub when attacking a hill etc. So regardless of the frame remember its a basic aluminium road geometry frame thats buttet together and a set of cheap carbon forks, all entry level roadies are the same recepie and dont vary by any measurable amount. They're made cheap for easy riding.

Cheap wheels will be out of true, easily break spokes etc too, not to mention be heavy and with crap bearings. Cheap spec entry stuff comes with shimano r500's, alex 500's, etc. I have broken 4 spokes at the elbow on my crappy alexrims whilst putting in hard climbs at full power, I had them rebuilt with better spokes and relaced in a different pattern (bloke at my LBS is awesome like this) and much higher tensions. Havnt dont another yet and they dont flex near as much. They actually flexed so much they wore against the chain stays at the rear and brake blocks on the front when decending... Part of this problem was the factory spoke lacing being 'wrong' (according to a bloke I trust knows a lot about building wheels right), along with uneven spoke lengths, uneven machine tension etc. Although heavier when fixed now, I'm infinately more happy with how they respond and how it doesnt feel like theres hub flex anymore etc. Along with having no issues with them staying true and radial, and I've smacked into a couple of unexpected potholes at night and they're still sweet. Says a lot for having strong stiff wheels regardless of the weight, on a commuter.

Cheap tyres will shit you to tears, replacing the no name terrible tires with conti GP4000's increased my average speeds, and massivly reduced my stopping distances. Have yet to have a puncture on them compared to several on the noname's originally fitted. The originals were unstable at speed decending, easily locked up the back and were genuinely frightening on a wet road, best upgrade by far was this move.

Back onto groupset...Braking with terrible calipers that flex is shocking, I cant stop in any acceptable amount of time regardless of rim surface, pads and effort (and I've got a strong grip and am 72kg). Modulation is non existant. Between braking on my bike and braking on an ultegra equipped bike with fulcrum rims there is just no comparison. Its borderline unsafe.

Entry level shimano hoods arent that comfortable to sprint on, I find myself with 2 fingers either side of the bar and hood yet on ultegra hoods I get all 4 on the hood and it feels much more stable. Personal choice though I spose. Indexed shifting is wishful thinking on 2200/sora/tiagra stuff, its more of...click, and then click again, then click back. Useless when responding to an attack in fast groups or climbs. Though acceptable for commuting. You'll wear out chain and 8spd casettes with big output though, I'm on my 3rd and 2nd respectivly in 5 months.

I have experienced all of the above on my own bike and on others of around the same level. I've also riden a couple of much better bikes and know the benefits, just not yet ready to buy frame and groupset to build another just yet, later this year for sure.

So my opinion for what its worth, is pick a budget, and find a bike with a 105 groupset and get wheels built strong, with good tyres on them. Everything else is simply not worth considering, whether its a Cell, noname, malvern star, trek, giant, avanti....All the entry level frames will be roughly equal, and I'd almost bet they're all made in one of 2 or 3 factories, from the same alloy from the same supplier bla bla bla. Warranties will be arguably the same, and realistically you wont tell a difference worth mentioning. All the bikes will weigh between 10.5kg and about 12 or so. Without full bidon's mine is 10.8 with full lights, spare bag etc. A mates entry level giant with carbon seat stays is 10.9 and riding them both you couldnt tell the difference if you didnt look down.

I keep up (although work a little harder) with a few guys that ride r2's, princes, 928's etc on weekly climbing rides and really its the groupset that lets me down, not being able to change cogs under power, brake decently. Its only the really good riders that ride away, and thats certainly no consequence of bike choice.

Its only once you step above entry level I think brand may play a very small part in your decision. My next will most probably be either a cervelo S1 alloy frame...No doubt it'll get dropped in a crit or hit by a car, plus I like the stiffness of alloy; or a carbon blank from china (which suprise suprise, is identical to an opera frame that retails for 3k).

But definitely base your decision on groupset and do yourself a favor of getting comfortable shoes and good knicks. Bad knicks will ruin the experience.

In all honesty, I wouldnt discredit Cell etc, although not having riden one I'd wager that its no different to a giant of the same level in feel, ride quality, durability, quality in general etc.

 

[Adi]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the tips regarding purchase. I have had a look at quokka etc and at this stage I think I would probably just get a brand new bike.

Since my last post I have test ridden a few bikes (only for very short distances of course). These are

- GT Series 3 (also had a Series 2 ($2000 not including pedals) in the shop)
- Avanti Giro ($2299)
- Avanti Vivace ($1899)

Geometry wise they all seem almost the same to me. Rode a Medium and M/L Avanti frame and might need to extend the length of the headstem a bit.

There is also the Specialized Allez Sport which ($2299) seems roughly similar to the bikes I tested.

Avanti has the R500 wheelset whereas GT and Specialized are running with Mavic CPX-22 rims. Which one is better in your opinion?

Also the guy at the bike store says the wheelset would be the first big upgrade for any entry level road bike. If I did upgrade the wheels what would I be looking at getting?
Is it even worth considering upgrading any components or should I simply stick with the stock wheelsets. I'm thinking that if I upgrade anything maybe it is worth just spending a few hundred dollar notes more and getting.

In any case all of the above bikes roll about a thousand times better than my A-line on flat road!

Currently leaning toward the Avanti bikes but wondering whether the 300 dollar difference between the Vivace and Giro is justifiable.


Cheers and thanks in advance!

 

[Flying haggis]

Have you considered a Tricross? Good for commuting, fast on the tarmac but can handle some rough stuff too.

I had a test ride on the Specialized Tricross and really liked it. But theres a few companys who do them.

 

[alexb618]

people are going to go on about flat bar road bikes and cross bikes and even MTBs with slicks

the bottom line is if you are riding on the road you will be better off on a normal road bike

go into a few bike shops and ask for the best giant/avanti/specialized you can get for $2000 or whatever your budget is

play them off like car salesmen until you get the best deal

make sure you get the bike that fits, which is usually not the bike that the salesman wants to sell you.

good luck

 

[racing replica]

fixed gear

I think go for a fixed gear roady, flat or drop depending on your preference. Simple, little maintenance, fitted with some fenders.

A plus side also is you may even improve your peddling technique.

For $1000 you can get an awesome fixie, if you don't mind mail order check out Wiggle's single speeds.

 

[Buriedpast]

.

Hey guys,
Also the guy at the bike store says the wheelset would be the first big upgrade for any entry level road bike. If I did upgrade the wheels what would I be looking at getting?

Wheels are probably the number one placebo and marketing gimmick in cycling over the past 10 years.

Dont buy into it or what some knob 25 year old at a bike store tells you.

The 25 year old triathlon dude at my LBS swears by all these machine made wheels etc. The 60 year old owner who's raced all over the world and has been building his own wheels since he was 12, swears by 32 spoke x3 lacing and light weight tyres for all but a grade and pro level cycling.

I know who I'd trust I also know that since he rebuilt mine, I can abuse the shit through them and they're perfect, straight and true, never flex, radially the same weight (maybe 10-20 grams heavier from heavier spokes?), and I trust them 100x more and as such ride faster and push the bike harder for it.

Also, wheel weight only matters at the spinning outer end of the rim, and between companies aluminium wheels are largely the same or similar weights. Gyroscopically there will be zero difference between a 1.5kg wheel with a beefy crap hub, and a 1kg wheel with a super lightweight hub. If 500 grams matters when climbing, you're either Cadel, or you could just empty your water bottle before climbing, or not have that extra kebab at 3am.

Its infinately easier to lose fat off body than grams of weight off bike.

 

[akashra]

Cheap wheels will be out of true, easily break spokes etc too, not to mention be heavy and with crap bearings. Cheap spec entry stuff comes with shimano r500's, alex 500's, etc.

See my previous post in this subforum on why I'll call BS on this claim.

Summary:
Shimano RH-500 wheelset, 18 months old, ridden through rain and mud, never replaced the bearings, never needed truing and it's been ridden off gutters, run over a small furry animal, binned once while countersteering...

I'm pretty happy with that for a $200 wheelset.

 

[BrindiCruiser]

R550 wheels

I don't know about the R500 wheels but I was not a fan of the R550 wheels. these used to come on a range of bikes in this price range. The 550 had a lower spoke count (than the R500s) and bladed spokes. Kept popping spokes on the rear wheel.

 

[Binaural]

Being totally blunt
Theres only so bad you can make an alloy frame bike in 2008/9.

So any brand entry level will always be the same give or take very small changes. As a commuter, you will never notice the difference.

So weigh your options up on the following:
Groupset
Wheels
Extras

My diamondback shitter entry level 2200/sora equipped thingo rides just as fast as a $5k carbon orbea for the 100-150km rides I do with people. It commutes no slower than any other bike commute over the 20-55km ride into work. Its only when putting in lots of climbing effort and long distance stuff that I really feel the hurt and wish it was lighter and stiffer.

If I had the option knowing what I do now, to buy another bike at entry level my decision would be based purely on groupset. 105 level hoods and rear dr with 10spd casette minimum.

All entry level frames will flex like buggery when you put the power down heavy, between some of my friends low end bikes/commuters like entry level giants, treks, masi's, etc I can easily flex the bb for mass chain rub when attacking a hill etc. So regardless of the frame remember its a basic aluminium road geometry frame thats buttet together and a set of cheap carbon forks, all entry level roadies are the same recepie and dont vary by any measurable amount. They're made cheap for easy riding.

Cheap wheels will be out of true, easily break spokes etc too, not to mention be heavy and with crap bearings. Cheap spec entry stuff comes with shimano r500's, alex 500's, etc. I have broken 4 spokes at the elbow on my crappy alexrims whilst putting in hard climbs at full power, I had them rebuilt with better spokes and relaced in a different pattern (bloke at my LBS is awesome like this) and much higher tensions. Havnt dont another yet and they dont flex near as much. They actually flexed so much they wore against the chain stays at the rear and brake blocks on the front when decending... Part of this problem was the factory spoke lacing being 'wrong' (according to a bloke I trust knows a lot about building wheels right), along with uneven spoke lengths, uneven machine tension etc. Although heavier when fixed now, I'm infinately more happy with how they respond and how it doesnt feel like theres hub flex anymore etc. Along with having no issues with them staying true and radial, and I've smacked into a couple of unexpected potholes at night and they're still sweet. Says a lot for having strong stiff wheels regardless of the weight, on a commuter.

Cheap tyres will shit you to tears, replacing the no name terrible tires with conti GP4000's increased my average speeds, and massivly reduced my stopping distances. Have yet to have a puncture on them compared to several on the noname's originally fitted. The originals were unstable at speed decending, easily locked up the back and were genuinely frightening on a wet road, best upgrade by far was this move.

Back onto groupset...Braking with terrible calipers that flex is shocking, I cant stop in any acceptable amount of time regardless of rim surface, pads and effort (and I've got a strong grip and am 72kg). Modulation is non existant. Between braking on my bike and braking on an ultegra equipped bike with fulcrum rims there is just no comparison. Its borderline unsafe.

Entry level shimano hoods arent that comfortable to sprint on, I find myself with 2 fingers either side of the bar and hood yet on ultegra hoods I get all 4 on the hood and it feels much more stable. Personal choice though I spose. Indexed shifting is wishful thinking on 2200/sora/tiagra stuff, its more of...click, and then click again, then click back. Useless when responding to an attack in fast groups or climbs. Though acceptable for commuting. You'll wear out chain and 8spd casettes with big output though, I'm on my 3rd and 2nd respectivly in 5 months.

I have experienced all of the above on my own bike and on others of around the same level. I've also riden a couple of much better bikes and know the benefits, just not yet ready to buy frame and groupset to build another just yet, later this year for sure.

So my opinion for what its worth, is pick a budget, and find a bike with a 105 groupset and get wheels built strong, with good tyres on them. Everything else is simply not worth considering, whether its a Cell, noname, malvern star, trek, giant, avanti....All the entry level frames will be roughly equal, and I'd almost bet they're all made in one of 2 or 3 factories, from the same alloy from the same supplier bla bla bla. Warranties will be arguably the same, and realistically you wont tell a difference worth mentioning. All the bikes will weigh between 10.5kg and about 12 or so. Without full bidon's mine is 10.8 with full lights, spare bag etc. A mates entry level giant with carbon seat stays is 10.9 and riding them both you couldnt tell the difference if you didnt look down.

I keep up (although work a little harder) with a few guys that ride r2's, princes, 928's etc on weekly climbing rides and really its the groupset that lets me down, not being able to change cogs under power, brake decently. Its only the really good riders that ride away, and thats certainly no consequence of bike choice.

Its only once you step above entry level I think brand may play a very small part in your decision. My next will most probably be either a cervelo S1 alloy frame...No doubt it'll get dropped in a crit or hit by a car, plus I like the stiffness of alloy; or a carbon blank from china (which suprise suprise, is identical to an opera frame that retails for 3k).

But definitely base your decision on groupset and do yourself a favor of getting comfortable shoes and good knicks. Bad knicks will ruin the experience.

In all honesty, I wouldnt discredit Cell etc, although not having riden one I'd wager that its no different to a giant of the same level in feel, ride quality, durability, quality in general etc.

Generally this is excellent advice, but I'd add a few things from my own experience.

* Shimano 105 is an excellent, long-lasting option that will still allow you to lock your bike up in dodgy places occasionally without wondering if it will be there when you come back. I've thrashed mine 50+km a day for the last year in rain, sunshine and foot-deep snow and it's all come out the other end looking good. More expensive gear is a waste of money for a commuter (apart from making your bike a honey-pot for discerning thieves) and you may be fine with Sora as well.

* Get a bike with the kind of finish that will look OK with plenty of cosmetic damage. Commuters tend to spend a lot of time being tied to posts, covered with mud, crashed etc.

* I agree with Ashkara about not being too worried about the reliability of cheaper wheels. More expensive wheels are lighter and often have a lower spoke count, making them more vulnerable to buckling overall. That said, lighter wheels have a very pleasant effect on a bike's feel and if you're light or have a smooth commute then they could be worthwhile buying straight up. I put over 4000km on a pair of Shimano RH-500s this year with no hassles or even truing required, and I'm 6'5, 100kg, and ride like an orangutan in all weather conditions. However, when I was researching these rims online I found plenty of warnings about their quality, so take this recommendation with a grain of salt. You might also want to get the better rims if you want to race on the cheap later on.

* Additional tip: get MTB SPDs rather than road shoes and cleats for commuting. The few benefits road shoes offer are absolutely not worth it for a commuter.

 

[Adi]

Thanks for the very helpful replies everyone.

Looks like the 105 componentry on the bikes and the stock wheelsets in my price range will be more than adequate.

Regarding the knicks which would you reccomend? Do I need them if I am riding 40km+ each day on the road bike?

I will also be riding on the weekends with friends and possibly group rides if I can, will I need knicks for these. There was a thread about knicks which I was reading and people reccomended to go for the higher end ($200ish) for comfort etc. Any particular brands?

Thanks again,
Adi

 

[Binaural]

Thanks for the very helpful replies everyone.

Looks like the 105 componentry on the bikes and the stock wheelsets in my price range will be more than adequate.

Regarding the knicks which would you reccomend? Do I need them if I am riding 40km+ each day on the road bike?

I will also be riding on the weekends with friends and possibly group rides if I can, will I need knicks for these. There was a thread about knicks which I was reading and people reccomended to go for the higher end ($200ish) for comfort etc. Any particular brands?

Thanks again,
Adi

Regarding knicks and/or padded shorts: Yes, you do need them for commuting over the distances you mention.

* Riding with a heavy bag makes your arse hurt more that riding with a light or no bag
* You also tend to stand up and sprint less than on a MTB to relieve the pressure

I run either cheapie roadie knicks under normal shorts (good for looking normal if you go to the shops, drop off at a friend's house on the way home etc, also cheapest option) or else MTB shorts with padding built in. These combos also resist light road wetness much better than straight knicks, with the additional advantage of a reduction in the number of conversations shop girls have with my knob. All good, in my opinion.

 

[chrisp2087]

With the advice I give it must sound like I work for cell bikes, which I don't. But I find their $25 "Cell" brand nicks to be great, they fit well, are comfy. But they're not the hardest wearing pair of nicks, you might wear them out. Under the shorts for commuting should be fine.

I'm fairly surprised at some of the comments of the R-500 wheelset from Shimano, I've ridden over 1,000kms on mine over some rough road & even got a little air sometimes (unexpected bumps in the road), I've ridden through a pothole so hard that my bars slipped in the stem (late night, no lights) and they're still true & run well.

Having said that, I intend to upgrade both the nicks & the wheels in the not too distant future

 

[akashra]

...I've ridden over 1,000kms on mine over some rough road & even got a little air sometimes (unexpected bumps in the road), I've ridden through a pothole so hard that my bars slipped in the stem (late night, no lights) and they're still true & run well....

Yeah. Just to add to what I said before as well, I've done ~18,000km on mine. It was only after hitting a 10cm deep pothole in the dark at speed last week that I started having concerns about their life.

 

[Arete]

I have Joytech hubs on Alex DC19 rims on my Cell and they've put up with being commuted every day, hit by a car, ridde home flat, ridden down stairs, dropped into a 6ft quarter and 180 to half cabbed on flat and are still relatively straight.

My mavic eclipse wheelset dented a rim hitting an out of flush drain cover.

 

[Buriedpast]

.,

I wrote a nice big speel yesterday regarding the wheel choice.

Fact is, I ride on alexrims R500, for all intents and purposes exactly the same as the shimano r500.

In short without writing another wall of text. I had no problems with them until I started getting serious.

I am not advising buying good wheels at all, or moving up to lightweight wheels or anything silly like that.

R500 hubs and rim are fine. Its the spoke quality, spoke tension and lacing pattern that is wrong.

They are laced at the hub end completely wrong, and as such each corresponding spoke elbow at either side of the hub is inline with eachother not opposing. This means that under heavy load, the hub actually flexes from chain load.

Downsides of this is loss of power, uneven loading of the spokes and hub, twisting of the hub within the radial datum of the wheel etc.

Benefits = Thats how a machine is set to lace them in the factory and it probably takes half the time feeding spokes to do it like that.

My wheels came factory tensioned terribly uneven, with uneven length spokes (I'm talking 1-2mm total adjustment difference between some opposing spokes), and were generally soft and weak as piss.

Under full power the rear wheel flexed into the brake blocks. Fast descending meant the front rubbed on the forks or into the brakeblocks (I loosened the caliper centre bolt to allow them to float), the rear rubbed on the chainstays etc. They were scary, flat out scary. I broke a spoke every 2nd time I went for a few laps in the hills that included sprinting up hill etc. = walk back/taxi.

After having my local bike store mechanic true them a few times, he just said we need to fix it, explained the problem to me and how he'd lace them properly.

Put in new spokes of a decent quality (dt's, forget model..), along with obligatory new nipples and crap. They're now ridiculously stiff, wonderful to ride on, and strong as a brick sh1tter. I can ride off a gutter, bunny hop over anything and land 'on the piss', dont give a crap about dodging tiyn bumbs and crap, they stay 100% straight when cornering hard. Under acceleration they dont smash into the brake blocks, they dont feel spongey anymore...Obvious power transfer increase as well.

The extra weight, if any, is not noticable. They ride amazingly well. Zero broken spokes since rebuild, ridden harder just to try and do so. Cant do it.

I was not in any way advocating spending a few hundred dollars on 'oither' shit wheels.

As like cheap bikes, theres only so bad you can make them. Any 32 spoke wheel laced well and kept stiff, will give thousands of Kay's of trouble free service to the average weight rider and perform well.

And +1 on the 105 sentiment. I wish like nothing else I went for 105, nowing now what I didnt then, I could never reccommend anyone buy a bike with anything less than 105. The hoods are infintely better, shifting is 100x better, indexing is actually precise, shifting under power is possible, cranks dont feel like they're made of cheese, drivetrain is silent (relatively), brakes are an amazing improvement on 2200/sora/tiagra etc.

Framechoice doesnt matter, whatever is comfortable, brand or model makes zero difference to your decision at that level. Dont let any schmuck tell you otherwise.

As for knicks. Cell knicks are f**king terrible. I have 2 sets for commuting only. I have random no name aldi bibs, ebay bibs, ebay knicks etc...All just shiyte. More than 1.5 hours in the saddle and my whole arse feels like Im busting out a super hot vindaloo.

My Pearl Izumi bibs are amazing. Nalini bibs amazing. I'll ride for 5+ hours in them and feel fine, never use any chamois cream etc.

I'd reccommend getting some cell knicks to try out for commuting. For longer rides a set of bibs is a big step up in comfort. Jersey wise, something tight is good. loose jerseys just act as drag, look bad, drag up on your back/annoy you etc.

Hmm, whats wrong with you guys having to wear shorts over the top of knicks...? Show it off

Shave your legs if you'll get sex for it. Thats the only reasoning I've ever come to that makes sense. Cicks really dig that shit, otherwise its just gay. Roadrash, massage and aero are all gimmicks to justify having sexy legs for ladies...

Personally I'd look on ebay or local bike stores for an 08 stock model 105 equipped bike. Should be easily attainable for 1000-1200 bucks or so.

The other reason for 105 is metaulergy. The crap I have I wear through chains, stretch chains, wear through cassettes etc. Seriously just eat that crap on. 3rd chain in as many thousand KM. 2nd casette. combination of riding the equipment a little too hard, and accumulating road grime that may not get cleaned off the links/teeth for another 80km of hard use.

 

[Buriedpast]

* Additional tip: get MTB SPDs rather than road shoes and cleats for commuting. The few benefits road shoes offer are absolutely not worth it for a commuter.

Hmm, tough call.

I have nice road shoes, along with entry level triathlon shoes. And having ridden a few mtb's with mtb SPD cleats and shoes, along with a friends roadie with mtb cleats and shoes (both shitmano). My experience is that roadie stuff is far more 'positive' engagement with the foot. Clipping in is near identical in both, I'm faster in roadie but purely out of habit, Unclipping is the same.

Mtb lets you walk around a little and most mtb shoes are a little less wanky, but my shimano yellow cleats are 10 bucks a pair off ebay and after walking 100m on concrete in them every day for the past few months I have not worn them down much, and the part that contacts the ground has no effect on pedal engagement anyway.

Also any roadie shoes for the price, are far stiffer than mtb shoes and breathe a lot better. My tri shoes are fairly flexy compared to carbon soled road shoes, but very comfortable for all but climbing mountains for more than an hour. Otherwise no real difference, you can notice the extra flex in them under hard acceleration but otherwise they're the same as the dedicated 3 strap road shoes. (tri shoes are 1 strap, looser toe area). Infact I'd probably reccomend entry level tri shoes over road shoes due to the comfort and ventillation for shorter rides. Lack of lower foot straps means I get a bit of a hot spot after 50km. No biggy, also no need to adjust straps as foot swells with sweat/bloodflow etc.

Pedal wise roadie pedals look 100x better, are much lighter. I can ride with normal joggers on with them (the peddles...) inverted. The engagement mechanism on most roadie pedal systems like look, shimano (all I've used) is much more solid too, you feel as if you can put every ounce of power down, with a toe down peddling motion, and your foot is 100% secure. The (albeit cheap shimano mtb86?) shoes and pedals I've used dont give me that confidence and I was cautious to continually keep my foot flatter. No faith ;p

Easily bunnyhop in both. I'd prefer the lightweight (and slick looks...) though anyday over easier walking when going from rack to showers.